rob mcnealy

Vinny Riley – Gokhshtein Magazine

Vinny Riley of Gokhshtein Magazine, talks with Rob McNealy about Gokhshtein Magazine, crypto marketing, and the state of crypto.

Crypto Euclid & Mystical Oaks Transcript

Crypto Euclid and Mystical Oaks from the Bitcoin Show

Note: This transcript was automatically generated by artificial intelligence (AI) and therefore typos may be present.

Rob McNealy
Hey, welcome to the show today. This is Rob McNealy and today I am talking to two amazing crypto influencers who have been making me laugh for some time now, and I am feeling really excited that they decided to come on my little podcast. I’d like to welcome the show crypto Euclid and mystical Oaks. How are you guys today?

Crypto Euclid
We are fantastic. We’re a little cold here in Knoxville. It’s not cold today. Yeah, well, we had snow two days ago, but I guess that’s a little warmer today.

Rob McNealy
Snow in Tennessee is generally considered not a good thing from what I hear at least from my relatives that live down there. So a lot of my relatives there. There’s a little town in jellico, Tennessee. It’s in the northeast corner right off. I 75 it’s all my family lives in there.

Crypto Euclid
Oh, cool. Cool. That’s awesome. We’re actually Floridians. We don’t like to brag about that too much. But we’re actually from Florida born Well, not born and raised. But what Raised basically both of us were there for a long time, but we’ve been off oh really grow please do say something horrible.

Mystical Oaks
No, I was just gonna say no, I am definitely not an influencer.

Crypto Euclid
Oh shit. Yeah. Yeah You call this a bad word, sir man we don’t we don’t put on say no

Mystical Oaks
it’s not a bad idea. Yes it is not. I mean I don’t know some people think it’s a bad word but I hope that I do not influence anyone to do anything I think get outside Oh, maybe or laugh You know?

Crypto Euclid
Yeah, same I want to I want to influence people into knowing that you don’t have to be a piece of shit. Oh wow oh can we cuss on here I’m sorry.

Rob McNealy
You can say anything you want man.

Crypto Euclid
Awesome

I used to be a degenerate piece of crap about two years ago and I’ve gotten sober and I don’t Want to let people know that, you know, you can turn your life around? That’s that’s what I want to influence people.

Rob McNealy
What made you turn your life around?

Crypto Euclid
You know what it was? Question? Yeah, that great question. You know, I was I came to, you know, I’m 43 I came to the conclusion that I was basically just trying to kill myself, like, in a way by just drinking so much. And I was trying to escape reality. And I realized that if I continue, you know, doing this, if I continue doing what I’m doing, I’m going to end up dead and I just clicked on me one day. This is too much it was on her birthday. I I stopped doing everything. And you know, I haven’t looked back for 27 months. So it was a decision to start living I guess, you know,

Rob McNealy
Well, congratulations on that. Were you guys together then like married when you were not sober.

Mystical Oaks
Yes, we’ve been married for like 152 years.

Crypto Euclid
We’ve been married for 19 years and together for what? 20 something 24 years. So she’s been through all of it I’ve been so this is my second go at sobriety. And she’s been through the whole thing. So this woman, hats off to her for sticking around with this crazy guy.

Rob McNealy
Well, congratulations, my wife and I are going on well, 18 and a half years, so Wow. High five to that guy’s got kids.

Crypto Euclid
Yes, two.

Rob McNealy
Wonderful, very, very cool.

Mystical Oaks
You?

Rob McNealy
Four. Four too many, I live in Utah, we’re light weights by Utah standards. But we’re not native Utahns so my wife and I are both from Michigan originally, but we’ve been living out west now between Colorado Utah a couple times in Wyoming about 19 years. We literally, we eloped to Utah 19 years ago, 19 half years ago. Wow. So yeah, there’s no It’s sexy place to love to but we did and you told makes it very easy to get married. shocker. But uh, yeah, it’s kind of it’s kind of an interesting place but it’s funny because we’re not like, of the predominant faith so we just fake it really, really well. We blend in with four kids and we homeschool but we’re not. Yeah, but we just look we look normal here.

Mystical Oaks
Yeah, love it.

Crypto Euclid
Yeah, we would probably fit in we also homeschool our kids but yeah, we’re not we’re not really religious people but we would probably fit in just fine with is it Mormons usually up there in Utah.

Rob McNealy
There’s a lot of they have a long name now. They don’t do acronyms anymore. But yeah, it’s that’s the long name of the church or that’s the name of the church but they only go by the law. They just rebranded. Told God told him to rebrand and they did.

Crypto Euclid
Time to work on marketing. It seems that sales were down have a

Mystical Oaks
They have a Twitter account.

Crypto Euclid
Yes. That what are they called tipping with You like whatever tithing, tithing, and they were down, so it’s time to do a rebrand.

Rob McNealy
They actually have a lot of marketers involved with the church. One of my friends is a pretty cool guy. And now, my friend, he’s a little weird, but he actually was a consult. He was a marketing consultant for the church for a while. And he is really hardcore. They use some really interesting tactics. But the the church actually owns like movie movie studios and radio and TV stations and newspapers and everything. They’re like, really? volved in the media.

Mystical Oaks
Oh, wow. Okay, well, I think, yeah, I think that’s pretty common. You don’t think about like religious organizations and churches, like being involved in media, but I think there’s a lot of that, that we don’t even really realize.

Rob McNealy
Oh, well, I mean, I think it was like, a few years ago, like the Catholic Church had some investments in like some, you know, firearms companies and stuff. They got a lot of shit for it. Not that I care. But, you know, hey, I thought it was kind of interesting. definitely interesting. You guys are Do you guys ever been out to Utah?

Crypto Euclid
No, I don’t think I we may have driven through we’ve done a lot of like traveling in our days. We drove I don’t think we have cross country a couple times and I don’t you know what I’d have to look at a map I’m really bad with with a geography will come visit so we’ll have to see if the i

Rob McNealy
Do you ski? Come come visit in February.

Crypto Euclid
Now I don’t I’ve never snow skied. I’ve always wanted to, you know, we grew up on the, on the gulf on the water. So we’re like water people. I’ve always wanted to snowboard, but uh, never have Yeah.

Rob McNealy
But uh, so we do a we do a we’re doing our second conference this year, we kind of do hit do a weird conference called off chain where it’s like a mash up of like crypto guns and prepping. On wave and we did our first one last March and we’re doing it again in February and then on that Sunday, we just take a bunch we bought and go skiing.

Crypto Euclid
So you know what that conference pretty much just described all my interests I think yeah,

Mystical Oaks
That sounds really fun.

Rob McNealy
I know a guy if he we actually just opened speaker proposals if you want to come from where you’re more than welcome push on you can talk about something or moderate Is it is it on in Utah?

Crypto Euclid
Okay, that’s all it’s a long drive that we’d have to fly yet you want to fly?

Rob McNealy
It’s so like, because we have for too many children and our most of our families back in Michigan, we generally take the family truckster to from you know, city Detroit every year by driving. So I drive a lot and then like, you want to fly if Tennessee? I’m guessing it’s probably actually a little further I would guess. So. Yeah.

Crypto Euclid
We must have driven through Utah tamarah because it’s on the waves have driven from from California to Florida. So yeah, no, that would be extremely that would that days and days of driving so we would have to fly but yeah, we’ve, we’ve we’ve done it a few of the conferences over on the West Coast with our our youngest one and we’ve done like some Vegas conferences and he flies with us, but unfortunately he has air sickness.

Mystical Oaks
So it’s really fun, pretty bad. You know, it’s somewhat managed, you know, you think that you haven’t under control, then you stop and you get like, mac and cheese or something. And then you’re like, probably wasn’t a good idea to get mac and cheese and the airport.

Rob McNealy
Our nine year old, who is our youngest, and he is definitely the baby of the family and he gets really bad motion sick and he is the biggest drama queen.

Mystical Oaks
The best friends.

Crypto Euclid
Yeah, ours is 10. So I think they would get along.

Rob McNealy
It’s pretty interesting. And it’s funny because that wherever you talked about any of the questions actually made questions and stuff for you guys. But you guys sound a lot like ours my wife Christy, actually, we have a weird life. So we my wife.

Mystical Oaks
Weird is good. Where does it go?

Rob McNealy
Yes, we are very a typical so my wife is a trained medical doctor by profession, but she never worked as a physician She works in. She does work in healthcare, but she does receive manages big research projects, but telecommutes to DC. So she works out of the house. And then my day job, I’m a forensic consultant, and I own my own consulting company, which gives me complete flexibility to work on our crypto stuff. And we’re both co founders and our crypto project, going back two years, and then we homeschool our kids. So we’re kind of like literally like, just before this interview started, I’m like, get out of the office. I gotta do my thing now, because we share office. So it’s like, it’s just kind of funny because we’re like, always around each other. And we’re always around our kids. And I brag on my kids, but you know, I’m around them way more than most people around their kids, you know, yeah, but don’t homeschool and don’t work from home. And then it’s kind of funny because I was, you know, I think it’s interesting. You guys are like this duo working together and crypto and my wife and I are like the only husband wife kind of people that I know that are also like a duo working in crypto. And it’s one of the things that why I want to interview you guys because I think it’s unusual. And you probably know that. And so what made you guys like want to work together?

Mystical Oaks
Oh, well, we’ve been working together like since we met basically. Yeah.

Crypto Euclid
We’re both always been entrepreneurs and had you know, done have our own businesses. And we’ve always, you know, you know, work from home. But as far as crypto Do you want to tell the story? You want me to do it? Okay.

Rob McNealy
You tell the story.

Crypto Euclid
Yes. Yes. How about we both tell it at the same time you say one sentence okay. No,what happened was, I got on, I found crypto Twitter. I was on Reddit a lot, you know, like the Bitcoin subreddits and stuff when I started. You know, learning more about Bitcoin and stuff. And then I found crypto Twitter and I fell in love with it. I was like, wow, this place is funny. Everyone’s you know, quick witted and it’s just fun you know, and you can just shit post all day and, and have fun and I kind of like just got addicted to it right away. And I’ve always wanted to. So my friend and I, when we were in high school had a pirate radio station, he had the giant CB antenna, illegal CB antenna, and we would we would do like a radio show. And so I’ve always kind of like dreamt about being like, you know, I don’t know, like a podcast or or like a howard stern I you know, it’s just always sort of been a thing I wanted to do. So I started to do a podcast and I interviewed some really, really funny people on crypto Twitter that I met. And Tamra heard the interview and she was cracking up. And she was like, had things to say as she we were listening to the episode she had funny things to say She’s also very funny. And in fact, she’s where I get all my material only a little that says, tell everyone that but she writes all all my jokes. But yeah, so she, she was like, Whoa, this is this is crazy now she already had a Twitter account for her business and she was already on Twitter but she wasn’t very active. And I was just always on Twitter, you know, always because, you know, I have like an addictive personality, and it’s all or nothing for me. So I really just buried my face into crypto Twitter and really got involved in it. And she heard the show and she had so much fun, you know, listening to it and the next episode, she was on there with me. So we’ve pretty much and then you know, she started interacting with me on Twitter with her Twitter account, and we have a lot of fun and you know, we talked to each other on Twitter even though we’re sitting in the same room or in the same bed

Rob McNealy
I’m I’m guilty of that myself. So yeah, we like why are you doing that? Like, give me a sandwich for like your next to me. No. No, you get the sandwich.

Crypto Euclid
Yeah, I want to say this to really quick, my long rant. It’s important that if you do something like as much time as I’m spending on Twitter with these be strangers and stuff. If you’re not involving your wife, then there could be issues because, and I’ve seen this with a lot of my friends on Twitter, where they’re just absorbed into it in the social media stuff, and they’re interacting with these these strangers, but they become like part of your life. And they’re their partners, their wives that aren’t involved don’t understand. They don’t they’re so confused, like, why do you spend so much time with these people? And you know, and I could see how that could cause marital issues. So it’s, you know, I think is good for our marriage that she’s, you know, we’re we’re doing it together because honestly, I think there would be a lot of, you know, just like time where we’re not interacting if we she wasn’t on there with me. So it is like the crypto stuff your your how you make a living yet full time are you guys still doing entrepreneurial kind of things? So I don’t trade I suck at it I’ve only lost Bitcoin doing trading I might long term hold holder. I we you know, we are getting to the point where, you know, we’re having people send us to conferences and things like that and we’ve had you know, we’ve had sponsors for different shows that we’ve produced, we’re certainly not the answer’s no, no, this is the answer. We’re, we have it we’re getting there. We’re building and I’m certainly not this is costing us money. Andyes, so yeah, no, we’re not. We haven’t really, you know, we’re working on it. Obviously, we’re in this space and we’re content creators and, you know, we provide, you know, a service to potential you know, businesses and things but it’s just As it is now it’s we’re sort of just I guess we’re building and we’re still figuring out as we go. But to answer your question, not so much and thank goodness, you know, Tamra is working hard and supplying, you know, the money for this hobby that I your hobby. I love it.

Rob McNealy
No sugar. mamas are important, right? entrepreneurs.

Crypto Euclid
Exactly.

Mystical Oaks
We switch every..

Crypto Euclid
I yeah, there was a time when I was really I was, you know, raking in all the dough. And I had an online business doing really, really well. And we’ve done we’ve done well for ourselves. And, you know, now it’s her turn now I’m no, no, no, I’m gonna sit back.

Mystical Oaks
I’m gonna tag you again.

Crypto Euclid
And I’m gonna play on Twitter all day. And she’s, and eventually Tamra, this will all pay off he think. Okay,

Mystical Oaks
knock on wood, right? Yeah, there you go.

Rob McNealy
My wife’s been very patient with my optimism over the last two years so she can she can relate. Yeah, really? Can. I shouldn’t have her We could have done like a four way kind of thing. Kind of actually next time we should do that, because that would actually be a lot of fun. But yeah, it’s been interesting because we started our little project originally almost two years ago and and we just bootstrap. We didn’t do like an Ico or anything like that. And it’s like, we’ve we’re been the purse strings for the crypt, our little crypto project. So we’re the ones that actually invested money and like, crypto has been something we’ve spent a lot of money on over the last couple years. Like I thought it was supposed to be the other way around. We’re supposed to make money and we’ve been spending money but I’m like, and I’m like, honey, you don’t work out. It’ll work out so great. Yeah, let’s say that a lot.

Crypto Euclid
How are you guys doing? Like right now considering like this, it just, it just seems like it keeps going down?

Mystical Oaks
The price of it, though, because it was just like, it was just three something not that long ago, and now it’s up. I mean,

Crypto Euclid
but every I mean, I’m personally like I feel it too. It’s just such a malaise right now. Everyone’s just like, Oh,

Rob McNealy
you know what I want them always the last one. Honor realized, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, well, not even from an investment standpoint. So I, I don’t know if you know much about what we’re doing with Tusk or anything, but we and I can give you the whole sales pitch at some point of what we’re doing. But long story short, I like the time that it’s quiet now. Do we just launched our own blockchain like we were a token two years ago and we just spent the last year building out our own community blockchain and and all this stuff. So and we literally are going to resume trading here, couple weeks week, something like that on no more this weekend, because everybody’s got a day job. So they are coders actually code on weekends. So to me, I actually liked the idea of launching one it’s dead and quiet and people are bored. No one’s marketing anything because I think it actually is good for our project. And hopefully I’ll make a stand out more. So I’m like, let’s just have it quiet for a couple more months and get some traction, the news cycle slow all the people who wanted to get Quick Left, and they’re bored now when they want to, but I feel really positive about what we’re doing. So I’m I’m not worried about I don’t, you know, I don’t sit there and worry about what the prices are and what things are trading at. That’s not like why I’m here. I’m here for the tech. Well, yeah, but But seriously, we actually we’re actually really focused on solving problems and so and getting customers. So to me, if we do those things really, really well, then the money will come and I’m not worried about it. And so I tell people don’t even worry about it things things are going to pan out because we’re on the right track. Yeah,

Crypto Euclid
I think for me, it’s like it sounds kind of corny and weird, but I think like my thing on Twitter’s I’m sort of like, like a I don’t want to sound egotistical, but I’m kinda like a personality, okay. And, and, and when I, my, my gifts to this community is by really dumb tweets, and they do Way better when everyone’s happy.

And does that make sense? Yeah.

A better crowd right? The crowd is happier. Exactly. So room imagine cryptid Twitter’s a room, and he got a bunch of pissed off people. It’s really hard to tell jokes, right? You don’t I mean,

Rob McNealy
why I my jokes are really not politically correct. So, yeah, I gotta be careful about that. But I went to it’s interesting because we’ve been going to meetups for a couple years in Salt Lake City is kind of a crypto hub, you know, this interesting project. So yeah, there’s some, you know, like overstocks here and Raven coins founded here. And then so there’s, you know, this is just kind of like a hub. And it’s funny because the the meetups are dead. Like they used to be used to some of these meetups used to have 100 people show up and now there’s like 12 on a good day, you know, and I think you know, all the Lambo get rich quick people are pissed off because they they lost right You know, they bought at the top and sold at the bottom whenever else, you know, I think I would be crying too. And and you know, my wife and I started investing first and that’s what got us interested because we’re like really, you know, you know, we’re looking at a lot of pride and like we can belt the project. Like, no seriously, we really got everybody got done laughing and I’m like, No, we could really do this. She’s like, you can’t cut I gotta find coders. And they did. And it’s interesting because when we were trading we were really fortunate on like, some really really stupid shit coins and sold them like at the right time before it all crashed down and you know, it’s like that made it a lot easier I guess for us financially but I mean, you know, we don’t live paycheck to paycheck so it’s not really a big deal. We have normal investments and this is part of our high risk investment stuff anyway, so we just kind of Oh, you did is that but I can see definitely the Malays out there in the real Twitter world not not real Twitter world because they’re It’s not real world world but the real world. In the crypto realm, there’s, it’s just people have lost interest because it’s not exciting right now. But you know, you’re, I’m I’m older than you. And so I remember very clearly the.com bust, and this, to me is exactly like that. And, to me, I’m excited. I’m actually more excited about crypto and especially what we’re working on now than I was even a year and a half ago, because I see the resemblance to what happened during the, you know, 299 to 2001 era. And what came out of 2001 is Facebook, Twitter, Google, and all the major players in online marketing and online commerce and retail and social media all came out of that space. When everybody was bored, miserable, broke, lost, all those companies went out of business. It’s happening again. And to me, if you see it like that, and you’re building a project, you should be excited right now. excited about what we’re doing right now?

Crypto Euclid
I am so well so here’s my thing I’m very like just moody anyway and I have like ups and downs in and you know even when everything’s going great I still can have issues with just whatever it’s being down but

Rob McNealy
the way they like happy is he

Crypto Euclid
I it’s you know, it’s sometimes it’s at a time Yes. But so with us though like I Yeah, we got into bitcoin before you know the before the giant rush up to 20,000 so even you know we haven’t like lost our asses or anything so it would be harder for Yeah, you know if we weren’t still up, you know, like still want to do this, you know what I mean? But I will say this. I do believe in it too. And I just it for me it wasn’t about the you know, oh, this is like the money is like amazing, you know that it keeps going up and up and up. And that has something to do with it. But it was just the you know, the All the stuff behind it, and all the community and how, you know, these people like Andreas antonopoulos out there, you know, preaching the good word of Bitcoin, it just like I became a disciple I just this is my, this is like my religion and I believe in it, and it sounds corny and weird, but I think it’s going to, to, you know, change the world for the better in the long run long term and I think it’s a I believe in it. So I I that’s why I’m still here. You know, and I think that’s in Tamra too. I think she’s seen it like me, you know, you seen the community how it’s just I think it’s, they’re generally the Bitcoin and crypto currency community, the people that really do believe in it and that aren’t here just to make a buck or whatever, are really genuinely good people. I think in most everyone that we’ve met, we’ve met a lot of people have been just really cool and they’re inspiring and they’re intelligent. and creative and funny, and it’s just a group of people that I like to say that I’m a part of.

Rob McNealy
Wow, you know, you just converted me to.

But But I have to agree, I think, you know, I’m optimistic that the world’s going to change. And I’m also pessimistic and nihilistic enough to realize and I think we’re in a race to dystopian future. And if we don’t get ahead of it with the centralized technology, we’re really fucked. So to be, you know, it’s like, you know, look at China, right? Or, you know, I am not like, I’m not riding I hope Iam right now, I believe, technology, you know, is is a weapon or a tool that can be used for good or evil. Right, yeah. And, you know, when, you know, China just decided all of a sudden, right, they’re gonna like, now they’re going to embrace social You know, they’re going to embrace you know, blockchain and, you know, crypto currencies, and then you see the whole crypto world go nuts, right? And I’m like, we’re talking one of the most authoritarian regimes on the planet. If they’re and if they are interested in cryptocurrency and blockchain, it is going to be in a way that they can control and enslave people with it. Not because they’re gonna, they’re, you know, they’re not going to support any technology that in any way takes away their power and control or threatens their power and control. And so if the Chinese all of a sudden decided that they really really really really, really like crypto, I think that’s probably vvvv really, really bad thing for people in China and maybe outside of China. What do you guys think?

Crypto Euclid
Certainly, I think that you know, any, any kind of technology with enough, you know, mind power behind it can be, you know, converted to where, like, they’re using it for their own goods. And I don’t, I’m not enough of a technical nerd to know if Bitcoin is even susceptible to that, but I, I’ve heard I’ve heard things like that being said, I think it’s possible. And yeah, I think some superpower like China with that much money and manpower. Certainly it could be a threat to crypto, you know,

Rob McNealy
yeah, I don’t think China is gonna, you know, rapidly push Bitcoin as a currency that they use in country I don’t think that’s what they’re going to do. I think they’re going to probably create their own state Chinese currency crypto currencies that are easily traceable. And it’s going to be part of that, you know, their typical Orwellian, you know, surveillance state kind of stuff. But, you know, I think crypto world a little weird, you know, you know, they get all excited when government gets involved and some politician says, Hey, we like crypto. But I always say you know, the whole point of crypto at least, you know, the whole cyber phone kind of thing that got me interested in crypto was to get away from the banks and get away from the state and get around. That is to help people, you know, become more free. And yeah, so I think that I think the crypto world is really kind of divided as it’s kind of grown bigger, you know, over especially, I think if you look at what crypto did two years ago is exactly what the internet didn’t like. 99 2000. Right. It blew up went crazy, but it put it on the map for everybody. So every time I go and talk to you know, people that aren’t into crypto, I haven’t found anybody who’s not heard of crypto or have not heard of Bitcoin. Everyone I know, everyone I meet, they’ve all heard of Bitcoin. They don’t necessarily understand it, or they think there’s a negative, you know, negative stigma around it. But they’ve heard of it. And I think that’s kind of where we are now, but I’m really kind of, you know, I, I think if we don’t really get back to embracing our actual decentralized routes, and I see that there, I believe there are threats coming into the space, the technology is going to stay. I don’t think crypto is going anywhere. The question is who’s controlling it and which are the dominant kryptos that are going to be used out there. I don’t have the answer to that yet.

Crypto Euclid
Yeah, I don’t think anyone does. You know, maybe that whole thing with Libra and the Facebook coin and all that stuff. You know, maybe that’s why everyone’s so worried about Libra. And you know, because here’s the thing with Facebook Who the fuck is still using Facebook the old like our parents, that’s who uses Facebook and guess what they are the most inept, like they don’t understand technology. Like for some reason our parents you know, we’re early 40s don’t know how to use technology very well. But for some reason, like our grandparents are geniuses on the computer I wouldn’t say genius or at least they understand their their phone. But our parents are like I don’t do

Mystical Oaks
it for me Mrs. To they understand their

Crypto Euclid
day. Can you print this web page out for me? That’s what like our parents say but in there, the ones that are using Facebook you know and i wonder like is that the one that’s what’s more that’s what’s scarier to me

Rob McNealy
is soon as you’re not gonna say okay boom or now are you

Crypto Euclid
know, you know it’s funny is that thing that Boomer thing is so funny because that was like a little meme that I thought kind of started on crypto Twitter and then it just is mounts like mainstream mainstream. Boomer, there was a guy on crypto Twitter reptar who started calling everyone he tweeted out everyone that’s over 30 is a boomer and it like everyone like lost their shit. It’s hilarious and this was like months ago. So it’s like is he responsible for this nationwide mean over

Mystical Oaks
it was like a year it

Crypto Euclid
was like a year ago he tweeted that out and I was like, Oh, this guy’s hilarious. But

yeah, so Anyway, I digress. Yeah,

Mystical Oaks
we went

Rob McNealy
as an XOR I just say screw everybody but you know, you know where the where the generation everybody forgot about and and I’m okay with that. You know, you guys just start you with Well, actually, technically 43 I think you’re technically an extra two. Yeah.

Mystical Oaks
Yeah, but I don’t even care. It’s like, you know, listen,

Crypto Euclid
that age thing is Yeah, so listen, sometimes I get though, but serious seriously guys, he say camera says she doesn’t care. You say dumb. Honestly, guys, Can you believe that? We’re this age? I don’t I can’t believe it. I can’t fucking believe that I am like 43 years old. I can’t fucking believe I don’t remember my 30s at all. I don’t remember my third I

Rob McNealy
kind of wish I didn’t.

Crypto Euclid
So what happened? Like, like, how did this happened? How did we get to this age old time?

Rob McNealy
47. So I tell my kids like are mortified. I’m like I was born during Vietnam. Right? And they look at you like what? And then I’m like, you know, I graduate from high school in 90, right? So I literally went through high school Navy’s literally my first freshman year was like, 86 or something. And it’s like, Don’t feel old. Like I look old. My Everything hurts other than that it hurts. But mentally, like, I’m still like, 20. Like, I still, like want to do the same things. I’m still hungry in business. I’m still excited about trying new things. I’ve always been like an early adopter of stuff. So I always like to try new things. I still want to travel again, you know, and so I don’t my parents were, like, always old. I don’t know how your parents were. I grew up. I grew up in the Midwest and like, and my parents were always old. Like, my mom had blue hit. My mom had old lady blue hair from the time I was like,

Mystical Oaks
thank you. This is like, I have pictures of my grandparents in their 40s and they they look like they did like now you know, I mean?

Rob McNealy
The same. Same old lady perm, you know, and I’m and I’m always and even when I was a kid. I think that’s what made these one of the things that made me so angry when I was younger. is like I’m like, I was thinking okay, Boomer before that was A thing like when I was a kid, I was like, okay, Boomer, that’s how I was with my parents, because they didn’t make any sense to me at all. You know, like, Why are you being old? It’s like, they really were. I think you can have an old mentality mentally or a young mentality and I still feel like I’m a kid. And just an old guys body, which kind of sucks but it is what it is. But I can say hey, I you know, a joke around I’m like, get off my pager kid. Because you know, I grew up in Rangers. I didn’t even I had my first cell phone I had when I was 28. But I grew up in the pager generation like we literally would be like, you know, doing the little pager codes. You guys have pagers when you were

Crypto Euclid
Dial 911 minute emergency 6969 that call me back like right away or something? There’s all these codes

Mystical Oaks
All I knew it was nine one line. Yeah,

Rob McNealy
So we always had like ID codes. Mine was 777 So you knew was me you’d be like 777911 phone number. You know if you type all that out and people like us Like we had heard someone said they made fun of me the other day I’m like you didn’t know the codes. You didn’t know codes you have to know codes if you’re using pagers. You know, it’s just kind of funny, but I’m old enough to remember CBS two, and I actually had 100 I had an illegal hundred amp linear amplifier on my CB, back in the 80s when that was still kind of a thing and a big weapon Tana so I’m old enough to remember that. So get off my pager.

Mystical Oaks
We had road trips, and we found that either we so I bought a car in Atlanta. When we first started dating and he installed like a CB in our cars that way we could keep

Our car and the CD my but we would play CB tag. Did you ever do that?

Rob McNealy
I think so. We Well, there was all sorts of weird games. But if you look at it, CBS were like crypto Twitter of like the 70s.

Crypto Euclid
How channels were like, shared so you could go Oh, yeah, if you end up obviously you don’t get on the trucker chain. But you grandfathered it. Yeah, you get on the trucker channel if you’re driving and you want to know if there’s Smokies up the road

Rob McNealy
well, everybody’s so everybody think about it. Think of the corollary. It’s just analog social media. So you got like, sudah you know, everybody’s got a pseudonym, you know, yeah, everybody’s, it’s a shared channel. Everybody’s Noxus to each other and are jerks and, and there’s trolls, and, you know, just retarded people. So if you think about it, like, see bees were are really that still are in some ways, but back in the day when non truckers really were instill in the CD culture. CBX culture is just social media culture, right? Is the same bad behavior. I know

Crypto Euclid
it is. You made it, he called it something that makes sense is shared channel and that’s what Twitter is. It’s just a shared channel on the same, you know, channel, you know, blurting out our nonsense and fighting with each other and, and you know, whatever, calling each other out and praising each other and what Ever. Yeah, right. Real quick. I had a thought before I lose it because it is it annoying that the way that you met

Mystical Oaks
Hmm, did you say, isn’t it? Yeah,

Crypto Euclid
thank you Isn’t he said in it? I thought,

Mystical Oaks
I know.

Crypto Euclid
Isn’t it annoying that the human body and the brain works so that when we’re young whippersnappers and we have like our strength, you know, like our, you know, we’re in our young, young 20s Our brains are like, mush. Then when we get older, and our brains have evolved, and we’re more wiser and we learn things, then our bodies start to fail. How, how ironic is that and you said that, you know, you don’t feel old, like your brain, you know, is still thinking young, but unfortunately, our bodies are just decaying. You

Mystical Oaks
know, okay,

Crypto Euclid
yes, it looks at it lately how you know?

It’s like it’s just devolving into this like blob of mess.

Rob McNealy
I’m not a religious person but if there is a God he’s an asshole for doing that.

Crypto Euclid
Exactly. And I know like what’s with the you know, the diseases and stuff like why why are we so flawed and why is there like mental health issues? Like why is our brains you know, trick us into thinking everything sucks like why is that you know and I guess

Mystical Oaks
everyone to be Stepford Wives I

Crypto Euclid
want I want our bodies to stay good mostly the time and not do the case so quickly and I want our brains to just work better. That’s what I want. That’s all you want.

Rob McNealy
Yeah, well, well think about like this right? It’s like and I believe there’s you know, the small Allah crazy people that have anxiety and are nuts and are depressed are all smart, smart people tend to be more nuts or and then they do dumb stuff because they’re being nuts because they’re smart. And the other choices you can just be dumb and make bad decisions because you’re dumb. We’re just kind of fucked. It’s not a not a great situation.

Crypto Euclid
Don’t you wish this sometimes you were just pleasantly Like, now you didn’t know how horrible it is really the whole how you know that

Mystical Oaks
if you actually are pleasantly dumb? Well, that’s possible.

Crypto Euclid
I don’t, but you know what I mean? Like, you know, knowing how like, like wackadoodle The world is sometimes as a curse and being like having like intelligence to understand, like, you know, there’s really no old white man in the sky that’s going to be there for us when we’re dead. You know, that whole thing and like, understanding that, you know, I don’t know what your beliefs are, but like, to me, it’s just like a scary thought. It’s just like, we have no, no idea why we’re here. We’re just these like bugs on this blue orb. And sometimes I wish I didn’t believe that sometimes I wish that I believed you know, it’s all going to be fine. You know, and every there’s a reason and there’s a purpose. And sometimes I think it’s good to, you know, you you would you want to just be

Mystical Oaks
I spend time worrying about what that is that you will never know of, and just live in the now moment because living

Rob McNealy
Yoga right? Tamar does yoga, right?

Mystical Oaks
A little sometimes?

Crypto Euclid
spiritual? She’s very spiritual. I’m more of a like, why am I here? This doesn’t make sense

Mystical Oaks
to say whiny, I’m afraid

Crypto Euclid
on air.

What’s the reason for my existence? I dread the existential dread. She’s more of a like, calm, grounded, like you’re here because you’re supposed to be, and you know, that kind of thing. And that’s why, you know, I’ve struggled with substance abuse because the brain is flawed because of her. No, you’re the reason I’ve gotten better multiple times. It’s the it’s my own brain left to my own devices. You know, I just don’t do well.

Rob McNealy
I don’t have a good answer to that. It’s kind of one of those mysteries and I think it comes back to breathe in and breathe out. And then or I can be really nihilistic say, we’re just here to suffer that. That is the reason we’re here to self right? Well, that’s a good goodness

Crypto Euclid
is hell. Listen, that’s a good positive spin like The horror, like the suffering that you’re experiencing is supposed to be so just go with it,

Rob McNealy
and deal with it. And and, and I agree with that. And yeah, it’s tough. I mean, I think, you know, I know a lot of smart people and it’s interesting, like all I pretty much every smart person I know struggles with anxiety or depression across the board. And I think that’s tough because I think, you know, and I think it’s really you know, we’re evolved from this like lizard brain kind of thing, right? So, you know, smarter people if you think about it higher IQ people what, there’s all sorts of, you know, thoughts on it, but you know, if you think about it, the the smart people why why do you have anxiety? Why do you worry about the future? Right? Well, maybe that comes from the fact that maybe your ancestors came from a cold environment or that they faced starvation and if they didn’t think and worry about the future, then sit on the grass and starve to death a reason to death. So are we evolved to say, you know, we need to think about putting Nuts away for the winner like a squirrel. And I think that’s part of it I really do believe that’s part of it is that we we had to evolve to learn to think ahead and plan and I think that ultimately anxiety is some kind of vestige of that you know, biologically now I have no idea if I’m right or wrong it’s just my own opinion on it, but it seems like it makes sense to me. I you’ve not been I’ve been the first person who said that

Mystical Oaks
or it could be like if you believe in past lives or something, maybe that past life

Crypto Euclid
see the scientific brain will immediately says no. I think there is something to like what you said and and what a luxury we have now where we’re like, oh, just live in the moment because everything’s fine. You know what I mean? We didn’t have your God. You know, we didn’t have we didn’t have that luxury. So the just

Mystical Oaks
just the just live in the mo is just it just calm you’re when you’re in those like Ras like Worried anxious things a way to deal with it is just to calm down and just, you know, be in the moment that you’re in Try not to worry about all the because you’re not gathering nuts for, you know, you’re not having to do that. So why Why are you putting yourself through that? And everyone around you know, I know just down, enjoy have fun.

Crypto Euclid
I’m not arguing good. That shouldn’t happen. I totally You are correct. We shouldn’t be, you know, worrying about shit. That’s not happened yet, but it’s, it’s hard to not, I guess because our brains are wired for that.

Rob McNealy
I think Tamar and I are both right. I think we’re nuts because of the way we’ve been programmed. But the solution to that is breathe in breathe out and do yoga.

Crypto Euclid
I agree with that. It’s certainly not you know,

lose your fucking mind and go batshit crazy. It’s like just brief.

Mystical Oaks
Little more sensible.

Rob McNealy
Yeah. You know, and I think there’s something to that and I really do. It’s funny because I listened to like all this like, really piano music. Now when I’m working, I found that even like, you know, I’m more of a suicidal tendency punk rock speed metal kind of guy growing up, and it’s like now I will be in my office and I’m like, nice acoustic piano soft music like the vanilla candle because I’m trying to, you know, be

Mystical Oaks
relaxed. George Winston, when you say piano that if you haven’t heard him then listen to him. Really good.

Rob McNealy
I, I really got into Lynn Trudeau

recently, and she’s like, not a big thing yet, but she’s amazing. So it’s on Spotify, Lynn Trudeau. And, but I’ll check out the Wednesday night too good. Because breathe and breathe out. It’s a good thing. We don’t we shouldn’t lose our minds were more and the thing is, here’s the thing, regardless of why people are stressed out and everybody seems to be stressed out, you know, if we’re not stressed out, we’re more likely to be nice to each other. So why don’t we just Do it for that reason alone.

Mystical Oaks
Exactly like when you’re high tension, high stress, then you’re, you’re short fused. So yeah.

Rob McNealy
There you go free then breathe out. breathing.

So you guys have had a lot of interesting people on your show you’ve had, you know, the cardano guy, Charles Hoskins and him had and Dre as at novelists. And so, of all the guests that you’ve actually had on your show, who would you say would have been your favorite one so far? Not big ones, but the ones you actually really really liked the interview? Oh my gosh, that’s a tough question.

Crypto Euclid
Well, okay. So we’ve actually on another show, we’ve done we’ve we’ve actually we’ve interviewed like Roger, fair, we’ve interviewed john and Janice McAfee, McAfee and, and then so out of and then you include antonopoulos and Hoskinson. Is that not the big names just out of everybody. Oh, and now Everyone, you know, honestly like so I don’t I don’t really like to do like the interview thing so much like I had coming to that conclusion. Like I that’s how I started was doing these long form, you know, interviews we have a guest and on the show we’re doing now that Bitcoin show I like the episodes where it’s just Tamra and I just cutting up and I realized that that’s kind of what I want to do But to answer your question that’s going to be too difficult. Why you think of it all answer? I mean,

Mystical Oaks
I, that was that was a good conversation. It wasn’t so much of an interview as much as like we I felt like we were just we were just in all like, sitting there listening to him tell stories. So so but that was good. That was a great experience I loved I love the conversation, and I loved how that went and antonopoulos was amazing. So those are my two favorite and I know they’re big, and then I’m going to go to small ones just because we love antonopoulos. So so it’s Fighting, just having, you know, just having his time getting to have a one on one conversation with him. So that’s mine. But then some of the ones that we’ve done in the past were my favorite. I can think of a couple like we were on an on a show around the corner. So I guess we did an interview with eight ball that was one of my favorite and then more recently, but still, like a year ago, I think what am i top favorites is when we have just multiple people on we had crypto breakfast on and we had PP like Pied Piper coin, which I don’t even know their apps anymore. I don’t even know brekkie switched is but we’ve had that we’ve had some just really way off the wall conversations with them. And that was fun.

Crypto Euclid
Yeah, the philosophical stuff when we really get into it. I mean, obviously I’m a huge antonopoulos fan and I really dig what he’s doing. So that would probably be my favorite one, but yeah, I’ve I like the ones where we really got into, you know, the philosophical stuff with something just our friends on crypto Twitter, you know, and, and then some of the group things we’ve done in the past are really, really fun. So

Rob McNealy
So you mentioned that you like working together and cutting up stuff. So, you know, one of the things that you do that spend kind of funny you do a lot of this weird, wacky kind of skits and creative stuff and weird CGI stuff, you know, what kind of got you to even experiment and go that direction.

Crypto Euclid
So it’s a funny story. I’ve always like wanted to play I’m kind of a, you know, a little bit of a nerd when it comes to like, you know, just producing stuff. And I like, you know, playing with the gadgets and things and I wanted to do when we first started our podcast, it was just a podcast and no camera or anything. And then once I like Like, you know what I’m going to you know Doc’s, my parents. And I started to do you know, like, the videos of my of myself with my phone or whatever. I was like, you know, it would be fun to do like a show where there’s a camera and a desk. And but the problem was like, upstairs or something. There’s like the wall. We didn’t want it like the wall was ugly or something or you didn’t like the way it looked or something. I don’t know. So we were going to I was like, Well, I can hang a sheet up. Right? There’s like too much stuff clutter in the background. Okay, you didn’t want me to put a camera because there was like clutter and stuff on the wall.

Mystical Oaks
It wasn’t clutter. It was we have because we live in an older house. Yeah. And we have with panel. So that’s,

Crypto Euclid
like, you’re so embarrassed to

Mystical Oaks
know what is hideous. Okay, so you don’t like the way it looks.

Crypto Euclid
I didn’t like the way the wood paneling looks like. So you didn’t want me to do and I’m like fine. I’ll hang a sheet up

Mystical Oaks
right now. look so much better a sheet.

Crypto Euclid
So then I’m like, wait a minute, why not just do a green screen and start messing around with greens? Yeah, do it right. So I hung up a green screen, I bought a green screen from Amazon and I hung up a green screen. And I started messing around with OBS and learning how to you know, use chroma key and all that stuff. And I started just the first thing that I you know, did was just start making like, dumps you know, funny stuff. And yeah, so that’s how it happened. It didn’t happen because I was like, I want to make green screen spaces.

Rob McNealy
Tamra was embarrassed of your architecture,

Crypto Euclid
like I mean,

Mystical Oaks
I always make things better you see how I even without trying to I feel like he could have left out that whole middle part of the story and just said, you know that he got a green screen and put it up. But I think the more it goes back to our our sense of like what we think is funny and like we’ve always been into kind of the sketch comedy

Crypto Euclid
where we grew up on Saturday Night Live and kids in the hall and yeah, the state and yes, all That Monty Python. So that’s definitely our sense of humor, and I love that stuff.

Mystical Oaks
So even when we’re out, we just we are making up silly things. We’re like, wouldn’t it be funny? If you know, until we have this whole scenario, and then it’s fun to actually do it, you know? So the things we can do is great. Now, if we had some kind of major budget, we could do so much more.

Crypto Euclid
Yeah, it’ll happen. This whole thing, honestly, is just a, like my body of work. And I’m waiting for someone to discover me. That’s what this is. This is my thing. I’m like, I’m putting it out there and doing the show. I’m like, hey, look at me. behind the desk. I got my wife here. And it’s funny stuff happening and I’m imagining that some studio head sees this and it’s like, oh my god, get get him on the phone. Right. Right now, we need this guy, get them on because in my mind, I am going to have like a show like, like, like, like stern or or Dave Letterman Yeah. Eric Andre that’s what’s going to happen with Eric Andre. He’s hilarious. He’s like newer, I guess like past like 10 years or so he kind of blew up he has like a really crazy like, it’s like on Comedy Central like late at night jet cribe that minutes he’s like he’s like, he’s just crazy like he goes out on the street and does just like ridiculous stuff. But he has like a look him up Eric Andre show. It’s funny. I don’t know if you like that stuff kind of humor. But it’s it’s it’s really funny. Tim and Eric too. I love Tim and Eric.

Rob McNealy
So why did you guys move up to Tennessee?

Crypto Euclid
Well, without getting too much into it, basically the Hurricanes were like now and I don’t even want to get into like oh because Florida makes you

Mystical Oaks
crazy about the wood paneling, but he doesn’t want to mention that the actual truth is like Florida literally. I don’t know if it’s the heat or what because you know, he already has issues.

The anxiety and stuff we talked to

Crypto Euclid
the Florida that makes me crazy.

Rob McNealy
From from what I see on the internet it makes everybody crazy

Crypto Euclid
it does I don’t know if it’s the heat or what but it’s very odd but I can’t stay in Florida for more than a few years I lose it Yeah, I just can’t get there and that we have lived there since the fourth grade so

Rob McNealy
yeah Tennessee but you know if I if I’m throwing a dart against the wall I have my own weird stories about why like where Why would you move to Salt Lake City of all places? But why would you pick

Crypto Euclid
Tennessee literally a dart right? Like a dart we are

Mystical Oaks
no okay, so well see this always happens but yeah, for some reason you know when you’re at the ocean, I guess you just think of well if I’m leaving the ocean, I’m going to the mountains extreme you know so the first time we left Florida I was like we’re either going to North Carolina or New Zealand. You know there’s and I don’t even know why I was just like those that’s I guess I was looking at property we vacation in North Carolina. So in the Smoky Mountains, so it’s like Smoky Mountains are we’re going crazy and going completely out of the country. So We went to North Carolina and we also went to New Zealand and then we went back to Florida so here we are back in Florida and we were looking at places and I’m like nope live there. No been there. No. And then we came across Knoxville and I’m like You know what, I don’t even think we’ve even driven through Knoxville so

Crypto Euclid
and it just has like a lot of

Rob McNealy
just we’ve never driven there let’s just do it we’re

Mystical Oaks
just we know we wouldn’t look at property and we kind of we found a house we loved and and then you keep loved the city so you know

Crypto Euclid
I like the big the beep beep and the noises in the cars and pretty light it’s like a small of the city. Now I like this I just love I love Knoxville and this the Gulf a little bit I miss like I like water sports and stuff. But I really really love Knoxville. So how

Rob McNealy
long you been there now? Three years,

three years. So you’re fairly new transplant? Yeah, yeah. So were you doing anything crypto related before Moved Where did that start afterward?

Crypto Euclid
I like most people was trying to purchase some things on the internet that could only be bought with crypto back in the day you know back a while ago so that was my only dealings with crypto you know back then. And once we got here is when I was like whoa this stuff is really you know, it’s starting to really go up it’s weird it’s a little bit of Bitcoin I had left in this circle wallet is now worth like, a lot more than you know, I paid for it and Whoa, and that’s when I found like Reddit and and started really getting into learning about it. And yeah, here we are.

Rob McNealy
So I know you guys you know, organize local events and things and go to meetups. What do you think the responses down south Do you think people in Knoxville are open to it? I mean, you guys travel a lot. So I mean, you probably talked to crypto people from all over the place. Do you think that people in the south are any more or less open to crypto then say someone in the middle Midwest or maybe in an urban area.

Crypto Euclid
So we haven’t really we don’t really organize meetups and things here. I’ve done some my runs that I do. I’ve done a couple of those and the conferences that we’ve been to the one in Toronto and the one in New York, but we have a weird meetup did a weird meetup here in Knoxville, we met a bunch of our crypto Twitter friends. This was a year over a year ago. We rented a year in August Yeah, so we rented a big like huge house in Gatlinburg, Gatlinburg, Tennessee, and we got all of our crypto friends, you know, that we knew on on Twitter, haven’t met any of them in real life. And we all just rented this big house and we stayed there for the weekend for the weekend. And like go big or go Yeah, you know, it was Yeah, it was fun. We did

Mystical Oaks
that. But yeah, it was a great time we bonded with all of them and

Crypto Euclid
but as far as like reaching out here locally like in Knoxville, I at one point I was looking kind of like at the local like Knoxville subreddit. I don’t really know of Too many, you know, crypto stuff happening here like just right here. We also visit our friends over in Nashville. Or is it Memphis or Nashville Nashville, and we hung out with some of them there. But it’s not really like a meetups. It’s just like, you know, friends that we’ve we’ve known on crypto and met on crypto Twitter and we just like kind of get together and hang out.

Mystical Oaks
Yeah. unofficial meetup.

Crypto Euclid
Yeah. It’s not like we’re like, okay, you know, let’s talk about Bitcoin. You know, it’s, we end up doing it anyway, because we’re all crypto nerds. But, you know, I mean, I just like people I like to hang out with my friends.

Rob McNealy
Well, that’s a good thing. We’re getting close on time. And, you know, I really do appreciate this is it actually went a completely different direction than the whole list of questions I printed out. So I’m actually actually it’s more fun this way. I like just kind of talking to people and you guys are pretty real. So I mean, that’s really kind of cool. Where can people find out more about what you guys are doing?

Crypto Euclid
You know, right now, the best way To you just follow us on Twitter, you know, I’m @CryptoEuclid on Twitter, and she’s @MysticalOaks. And we have a show. It’s called That Bitcoin show. We I uploaded as a podcast and I also put it on YouTube. So we’re building our YouTube channel, but I guess the best way to find in all the latest episodes and stuff is just ThatBitcoinShow.com.

Mystical Oaks
I do want to say that I’m looking at your list of questions which, which like after speaking to us, which is the craziest one you have on there to ask us like the far like far fetched that you would ask us now like you’re looking at it and you’re like, there’s no way I’d ask them this question.

Rob McNealy
Oh, I don’t think there’s any of my wouldn’t ask you. Okay, which is your favorite then? I was going to ask you who was going to be your most eccentric guest, but you already threw McAfee out there. So I just assumed that would be that would have been him?

Mystical Oaks
Um, no. Richard Hart.

Crypto Euclid
Yeah. Richard Hart was interesting.

Mystical Oaks
Yeah. Most eccentric?

Rob McNealy
Yes. Cool. You know, we should do this again. I’ve had a good time. I’m talking to you guys. Maybe we should live maybe get my wife. I’m like cameras and we’ll just kind of sit there and shoot. I think it’d be a fun, guys, thank you so much for coming on today really do appreciate it.

Crypto Euclid
Yeah, definitely. This was a lot of fun.

Mystical Oaks
Tell your wife hi.

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Jason Brown, Komodo Atomic Dex Video

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Joe Mcgill – CyChain on Crypto Risks

Joe McGill, Founder of CyChain, discusses crypto and blockchain threat intelligence, investigations and recovery, and operational security.

Joe McGill CyChain Video Interview

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Jason Fishman of DNA Interview Transcript

Jason Fishman, DNA

Note: This transcript was automatically generated by artificial intelligence (AI) and therefore typos may be present.

Rob McNealy
Today I am excited because I am talking to Jason Fishman. He is with a digital niche agency, a digital marketing agency based out of California specializing in the blockchain space. We met a few weeks ago at World crypto con, and I had a really good time hanging out with them. So welcome to the show. Jason, how are you?

Jason Fishman
Good. Thanks for having me. Rob. Excited to be on and chatting in front of your audience.

Rob McNealy
Well, I appreciate it. So what’s been going on? What are you been working on lately?

Jason Fishman
Sure. Sure. is in the conference schedule. Going to Australia in a couple weeks right before I saw in Vegas, was at Paris blockchain summit on a marketing channel and CC forum London on an investor panel. So always busy with Thought Leadership type activations, have a article come out in Forbes tomorrow, excited to be on the podcast today. That’s where a lot of the focuses are during this time of year. In the same breath, I could go into my history. also working on some private rounds campaigns as well as blockchain user acquisition campaigns. So you know, I always say, if I’m not busy, something feels off. I like balance. We’re running an agency. We’re working on 15 to 30 projects at a time. So gives you a lot of different things to be creative about, and anything less than that. Yeah, feels like under you there.

Rob McNealy
So what’s your background? How did you get into the marketing world?

Jason Fishman
Sure, sure. So, to go all the way back. About 12 years ago, I started in marketing as an action sports consultant. I grew up snowboarding skiing, Surfing here in California, have a lot of friends in those industries and started as an agency working on some of the biggest brands for their accounts, and getting into the world of top, specifically around video sharing platforms. One of my projects was then acquired based on the success in marketing launches, and I quickly started building my portfolio with accounts and other verticals including music, fashion, telecom travel, eventually moved over to a different agency and led the new business team and being part of the whole pitch process and coming up with these creative ideas before going in house and played a role at a social gaming company here in Santa Monica, raised 3 million in seed capital. And as part of that initiative from the timeline is an idea on a whiteboard all the way through funding into branded licensed entertainment games. That’s where I really learned user acquisition models. average revenue per user, essentially arbitrage traffic and buying traffic lower than the cost that you’re selling it really ins and outs of the whole digital marketing landscape before getting into the world of ad tech. And that was through a partnership that we had at the social gaming company was able to work with a lot of top 100 advertisers in that period of time, and oversaw Product Marketing, as well as sales. So I got to sit with publishers figure out the best ways to engage and monetize their audience, to then take those ad units over to advertisers and find rollouts for these different pieces of inventory that we’re going to hit their goals hit their deliverables. My overall focus has always been business growth, being able to leverage marketing, to do so and algorithmically at that was very exciting to me with that, at this point in depth, record and success without the partner in this company, digital media agency DNA marketing DNA since January of 2014, since we’ve worked with over 300 clients, startups to product launches of larger brands as well too, but generally building a community and pushing them through a funnel to hit initial milestones, and then scaling from it. In doing so, working with startups, we found fundraising to be a common theme, a common initiative, whether it was working on pitch materials for enrolling investor meetings, working on the marketing sections and business plan or even more so the revenue sections of a business plan to show which channels we’re going to drive each different metric in their projections, eventually into equity crowdfunding and still in 2014. Here, I was bringing third party data of accredited investors, user investors with over a million dollars net worth outside of their primary home or significant income over the past three years. And bringing them to offering cages using third party data we were hitting surpassing some of the biggest agencies in the industry. And therefore we’re getting a lot of calls from portals from platforms. And we’re running these type of campaigns from websites. Think of it as an exchange, but just around the sale and purchasing of that private equity, not in the trade of it quite yet. But when the industry is limited at that point, and the laws opened up more in 2016, as acknowledged by the SEC for us to use different filings, and raised from both accredited and unaccredited investors. That’s when this really became the biggest part of our client list. We saw those type of inquiries change to initial coin offerings in 2017. And particularly with the momentum in that year that became our sole focus. So you know whether they were international or equity crowdfunding campaigns with a token offerings with a token component to it. Some cases being voted to tokens. We were working on investor acquisition. And we invested into the development of our own first party data. So data that we then tested out for our clients and soft performance, and at this point have records of investors who participate in private sale investors which participate in public sales on the equity crowdfunding side to throw a bunch of acronyms but reg, CF reg, a reg D, all the different filings we have investors specific to those restrictions, have it broken down by geo targets to markets, essentially records of millions of investors and we then find audiences to a B and D test against each other for these campaigns, and can measure depending on how we’re tracking and depending on the actual campaign setup, the cost per acquisition of each and every 30 return on adspend and essentially provide opportunities for our clients to scale. Beyond fundraising, as mentioned, as well, as we’ve seen, things evolved from my field as to some ideas this year. We’re also doing a lot of blockchain user acquisition campaigns, whether that’s wallets or different types of apps or software, even some projects on the business to business side of things, finding ways to provide company’s value and, you know, continue to build up their user base.

Rob McNealy
So of all the different projects that you’ve helped, you know, do raises What was your biggest success story look like?

Jason Fishman
Sure. So we have published case studies, and I could speak to a few of those. We also have white label relationships were more in the background and more restricted contracts, where we’re bar in the background so longer than I can’t share, but I What I plan, there is a $50 million raise project for a hybrid exchange that we worked out a few years back. Some of the team members were very public figures. They’ve since been acquired and shaded. But hybrid block was a campaign where we had worked on user acquisition for their telegram, community audience most focused on their their public sale. So yeah, it’s in very large metrics there. Beyond that have worked on over 100 fundraising projects, majority of which blockchain and in a full spectrum from, you know, green energy to mining to exchanges, to various markets, specific currencies. Again, really a full spectrum of different projects. And you can buy them even more than the ones that we activate directly to.

Rob McNealy
So what do you see yourself The challenges of fundraising for you know, these different types of crowdsource, you know, kind of projects. What do you see is not only what are some of the challenges, but do you see the biggest mistakes people are making when they’re trying to raise money?

Jason Fishman
Sure, sure. So raise money can be very broad. You know, we’ve seen companies raise money by having a few conversations with people in their network and be able to close everything out from there. We’ve then been part of very visible public sale campaigns with high volumes of investors. So and everything in between, of course, so there can be a lot of different variables for any of those. timeline is something that I often see projected off by projects where they think they’re going to be able to raise funds very quickly. channels in which they’re going to do so whether it’s their personal network, whether that’s through specific capital groups will keep it product capital groups, but through specific Venture Partners, broker dealers, in regards to marketing, we’ve seen groups think that they’re going to place a token sale page, do a couple paid article placements, and you have a telegram channel have some type of community channel, given the point in time that they’re out, and they’re just going to be able to, you know, close out the round very quickly. I’ve certainly seen that happen. We’ve certainly been part of that happening, and oftentimes reflecting market conditions. But for me, it’s all about creating a well oiled machine of a marketing funnel. And to take it back even further than that, to have a resorting an algorithmic strategy, where it’s showing me exactly which channels are going to use what you’re anticipating the channels can produce in terms of its digital impressions, clicks and conversions, and some offline metrics for direct outreach, such as responses meetings, and you know, different types of written verification that you want to track all the way through to complete it investment, the only way to measure anything is with numbers. So without having that type of strategy, without having that type of plan, there’s no way in which that you’re gonna be able to tell what’s really working, what’s not working, or to be able to effectively optimize if if the channels not working for you. Again, if that’s a broker dealer relationship, or if that’s paid advertising, you won’t be able to tell where in that algorithm, you’re not getting the right traction, and therefore to be able to focus on improving things there. And you can say statements like, oh, broker dealers didn’t work for us. Advertising didn’t work for us, you can completely missed the mark on these tools that are stepped into other groups.

Rob McNealy
So speaking of tools, you know, kind of being in the crypto space it you know, a lot of the normal channels that, you know, a company or a project might use to market would be things like Facebook and Google and Twitter. And a lot of these platforms have, you know, outright ban crypto related kind of content and advertising. What kind of challenge does that pose to you and how do you deal with it?

Jason Fishman
Sure, sure. So, we get blanket statements all the time, such as, Hey, I heard we can’t advertise on Facebook. I heard we can’t do anything on Google. And when I look at how I grade A good marketer, I’m looking at their problem solving abilities. Anyone can set up a marketing campaign, as followed by a template or an approach. Anyone can use creative that’s been supplied by the clients or Very basic creative that is reflecting competitors. But simply seeing success out of the gate doesn’t make a marketer effective. What I like to see is their problem solving abilities, what do they do when things are not working. And now that’s where you can gauge true tower. Because campaigns are going to fluctuate, it could be the biggest brand in the world or a new startup, you will not see the same level of success day in day out year after year. It just doesn’t occur like that you have to be able to effectively optimize. So when I look at any of these channels and the restrictions, the same thing for me, it’s how do we problem solve here? How do we get something approved? When speaking was reps at these platforms? and ask them how do we do this compliantly they tell us what gets campaigns blocked certain rewards can ticker currency can’t say Ico. However, you can say distributed ledger technology, you can talk about the function of the technology, you can give out info that serves an educational purpose without using those words. And therefore taking audience down a funnel, where eventually they have an opportunity to directly participate in a security token offering as an example. So it’s all about how you use these channels. You can create a Facebook page, advertisements, a landing page, or mentioned URL and that landing page as well to that all do not use bands, trigger words. But meanwhile, speak to your target audience and convey the value of your offering. And after that next landing page, be able to take them down a funnel that would be tougher to get approved. This is true was very categories. A few other examples, go all the way to financial advising supplements, but include CBD, firearms, various types of verticals, where if you bring an audience in to more of a homepage, or something that can get approved and doesn’t talk about anything that’s a little more gray. You know, use the sporting goods store example and a firearms are sold at that sporting goods store and someone clicks through to it, it’s not going to be banned. If it’s not mentioned in the advertisement in the land engage yet audiences could store and purchase purchasing an item or participating let’s say an investment deal that if it was blatantly listed in the advertisement or landing page could be looked at as restricted. So by building funnels, we’ve been able to leverage this challenge and we’ve had to do so because those channels perform Over 40 million cryptocurrency and fuzziness that I can access with Facebook’s third party data. It’s a combination of their first party and third party data support pages that they like and data partners that they have that have identified audiences with an affinity for digital assets. And bye bye by looking at their ad placement by looking at the click through rates, which are about 10 times higher than a standard banner ad click through rate by looking at the sheer conversion nature with by catching someone in their social advertising in their social media experience. It’s something that can’t be ignored, even if it’s nothing else than the targeting. And they have Facebook, Instagram, the audience network, the audience network hasover it has a high volume of top tier sites, we can continue to retarget you can continue to reach a user again and again and again. So I wouldn’t look at these platforms and say look them Or blanket statements such as my audience isn’t on Google, they’re not on facebook, facebook has over a billion users a day. And again, through their their reach new can touch people essentially everywhere they go online, I would look at how I can use them. And then my whole philosophy towards marketing as a whole, which again, is a utility for business growth beyond just created my whole summary. My tagline, if you will, for marketing is summarized in three words, test, optimize scale. So I’m not saying use all of these channels, new them forever. More importantly, find some channels to test figure out as I mentioned, in regards to the plan, what audiences you want to go after their what creative that you want to use their the projections for full algorithm of performance metrics all the way through, and then optimize to improve performance and then scale the channels that are working best. That that’s been my approach to it. It’s been different in terms of the top dragging channel campaign to campaign. But there’s definitely ways to leverage these platforms for what you’re trying to do.

Rob McNealy
So a lot of the crypto world says, you know, rightfully drawn arrows from pay to play problem, you know, a lot of influencer marketing, advertising that comes off as journalism, but it’s actually advertising. It’s all paid for. I know, that was really important back, you know, a year and a half, two years ago. Is that still important now? Is it is there a really an ROI on doing those types of, you know, paid campaigns, um, you know, when we were initially, you know, launching our token two years ago, I had people that had like, 1000 people or 1000 subscribers on their YouTube channel, and they wanted $10,000 you know, in some cases to come and just get an interview. So, yeah, and, and I always looked at it like, I just don’t see how the There’s a return on that investment, you know, from the marketing side of it. What’s your take on that?

Jason Fishman
Question? You know, the overarching statement would still be test, optimize scale, look at the ones you want to test out. But I’ll tell you why it matters why it’s still good to consider these opportunities. Not just roll them out. People don’t trust what they see online. Social Proof third party validation is a big part of a successful marketing campaign. And if you’re able to leverage the right media publishers, the right influencers, the right communities, the right you know, organizations of various types to validate what you’re doing, refer them to your your pages to your assets. It can really go a long way. They can make the entire difference. It’s hit or miss. We’ve seen anything answers with very large audiences perform marginally at best we’ve seen them perform in zero metrics that we could measure. We’ve then seen influencers with you know, under 10,000 or 1000. In some cases, that the moment they talked about a campaign everything you know, Spike. So you know, it is a matter of testing it out. We still do straight influencer marketing campaigns now we call them outreach because of the way the influencer world has changed and the ways to interact with influencers. But essentially, when you’re running an influencer campaign, you’d want to test 310 30 different influencers depending on their size, and all in slightly different disciplines, slightly different audiences is a good way to look at it. You don’t want to put all of your eggs in one basket, going back to some of the shortcomings, I’ve seen groups hit in the past. And I thought, Hey, we’re going to have this one guy posts about us. And we’re going to close that around in a few hours. And since he didn’t occur like that, I going to have seen ones that that has happened. But best practices would be more to diversify. So let’s try a few different publishers. Let’s try a few different influencers, if it’s paid advertising, which could speak at length about as well here too. Let’s try a few different ad placements, few different data sets, and different creatives, you want to have something to compare something to again, a and b test. But yes, it still plays a role. The pay to play sponsored content prices are going down. There was a point there in 2017, first half 2018 where everything was expensive and everyone wanted to be opportunistic, regardless of the effectiveness of their their media and More speaking to their own revenue model and what they thought that it should it should be valued at. So, you know, there’s a lot of ways you can work with an agency or third party, even over a phone call not even a formal engagement, where they can give you a few tips on how to structure these conversations. with publishers, with influencers with any type of paid opportunity, there tends to always be some level of wiggle room. If you’re speaking, managed service. If you’re talking to another human. I can give you a few ideas on how to do it if it doesn’t seem like that avenues available. But I would definitely evaluate them. They definitely still serve a purpose. And we’ve seen it be very effective for clients.

Rob McNealy
How do you see marketing in the crypto space changing over the next year to three years?

Jason Fishman
Yeah, yeah. So I want to want to be able to have a strong prediction here. So marketing is obviously changed as the industry has over the past two years. past two months, you know, campaigns in September of 2019 look different from December. We’re planning and activating this week in in 2019. And when it comes to investment opportunities, we’re seeing a lot more attention around private rounds, which means longer sales cycles, smaller investment amounts, and, in many cases, offline touch points in person meetings with investors, which groups projects looked at as not as necessary, two years ago, marketing plays a large role in that. When we’re looking at digital marketing, seven touch points are more on average are required for conversion. And if we’re Reaching that audience with the same creative, same messaging, same channel every time, it’s going to have that fatigue, where if we’re building a content marketing funnel, and showcasing momentum, giving investors the feel that, hey, this is moving shifts going in this direction. And I want to be part of that. It’s much different than if it’s a stagnant conversation with a lot of repetition. So, you know, being able to have more good fundamental marketing, best practices implemented into these types of campaigns, which again, groups did with very little digital marketing couple years back. Now I’m going to go out and say that’s going to be more of a best practice of having more of that. I don’t want to say corporate, the more professional look and feel of a larger organization, I think is going to be true for brands and if nothing else, to convey trust. And seeing the groups who have surpassed the crypto winter and overall thinning of groups in the industry, the groups that are surviving that are structured well. And they have, you know, good operating procedures and all air in many areas of the business, including marketing. So going more to what does a brand look like? How should a company be operating? How should the decentralized organization be operating and what should look and feel be both on the platform and marketing off to attract more mass adoption? I think mass adoption is really the game moving forward here. And some of the biggest thought leaders speakers in the space I’ve seen moved from pointing at smaller projects to change the world to even saying things like, hey, it’s gonna be the enterprise level businesses that are going to change the world. Going to be them that are going to drive mass adoption of cryptocurrency mass adoption of blockchain. Massive name any group specifically because I’m still filling things out in the direction of where those organizations, sure initiatives. At the same time, when you look at groups of over a billion users and how they can bring that type of adoption to this technology, very exciting. And what’s the follow through Maryland, you know, look at the chess game. And you know, strategies were five moves deep, where the audience is going to be a lot of possibilities open up. So even if it’s not enterprise appearing enterprise is going to be a big part of marketing strategies moving forward, I believe.

Rob McNealy
So last question, what does your ideal client look like?

Jason Fishman
So our values as an agency is being able to work with Which means not limited to just one client, communicate early and answer with algorithms. It’s how we approach this. I say it because it’s important and marketing conversations, regardless of the dynamic, and, you know, to that extent and so for we are we look for situations we could provide value. In some cases, it’s a quick advertising engagement or at the last part of their campaigns, bringing traffic from our audiences and showing the very strong return. You know, more of our standard models, starting with the marketing strategy, getting into the content marketing stages, driving traffic into that funnel, paid ads, while doing direct outreach to those four areas. But for me, it’s looking to align with projects that can have a you know, I don’t say disruption or anything like that, but a very measurable impact in their vertical To be able to align ourselves with projects that could leave that type of positive change, to be able to have case studies that showcased numerical results for those launches and how we play the role and we’re part of it was working while it wasn’t being able to scale from there is our ultimate goal. So anything that’s new or different, I like talking with them. I work with a welcome to warm marketing conversation anytime. And, you know, I’ve seen so many amazing ideas over the years and dating back to, you know, the first agencies and telecom projects have gotten, you know, just amazing technology that never saw the light of day, or that, you know, had a very, very low awareness level. Marketing for me is the answer. That’s why I focus on this I can get millions of people, all types of top groups, or in some cases, it’s very specific individuals to look at our clients, what they’re doing the ultimate goal that they have around it. And the effect is going to have on all of their users and how that translates out not to sound too idealistic, the killer world. That that’s really what’s exciting about we do about what we do. So anywhere where we can really serve in that type of role to amplify and scale the right problems.

Rob McNealy
You know, that’s actually good answer. Jason, where can people find out more?

Jason Fishman
Sure. So I’m accessible through LinkedIn. Jason Fishman. Our website Digital Niche Agency. So DNA stands for DigitalNicheAgency.com. And like I mentioned, I was happy to provide insights, packages recommendations for ya, whether we have the opportunity to collaborate or not. So yeah, feel free to reach out Listen company, feel free to reach out to me individually. always like to connect.

Rob McNealy
Jason, thanks so much for being on the show.

Jason Fishman
All right. Thanks for having me, Rob.

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Jason Fishman – DNA on Crypto Marketing

Jason Fishman, Co-Founder of Digital Niche Agency (DNA), discusses startup fundraising and the challenges of crypto and blockchain project marketing.

Landon Ainge of Gabb Wireless Video

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Landon Ainge Gabb Wireless Transcript

Landon Ainge. Senior Vice President Gabb Wireless

Note: This transcript was automatically generated by artificial intelligence (AI) and therefore typos may be present.

Rob McNealy
Today I’m talking to Landon. And he is the Senior Vice President of gab wireless, which is a new type of phone company. And they’re doing some really interesting stuff. So I’d like to welcome the show. And Landon, how are you today?

Landon Ainge
Doing great. Thank you so much for having me.

Rob McNealy
So where are we talking to you from today?

Landon Ainge
I am actually surprisingly, in my house today, just at home. Yeah, normally I’m in the WeWork working in the office there but caught me in between investor meetings. And now I’m at home and going all the way WeWork.

Rob McNealy
And you guys are based in Utah. Right?

Landon Ainge
We are based in Utah, yeah.

Rob McNealy
So tell me a little bit about..

Landon Ainge
The founders are based in Palo Alto.

Rob McNealy
Well, we won’t hold that against the company. You know, it’s interesting. There seems to be a lot of divide coming out of At least on the political side when it comes to like, you know, more like, you know, West Coast tech people and even you know, I think even in Utah because it’s interesting because Utah tends not to be so left leaning, but still tech centric. Yeah. I don’t know. I used to I always tell people I used to like it when I didn’t know the political ideologies of companies that we’re doing business with or buying their products from, but now it seems like everything out of Silicon Valley is all about talking about politics, which I don’t think is always that great. To be honest. When I was a kid, when I was getting my MBA, they always said, you know, you know, the best thing is don’t bring up politics might alienate your customers. And now it’s like everybody’s trying to alienate their customers. And I guess I they went to a different business school, but I did. What do you think about all that?

Landon Ainge
I think with marketing, it’s changed a little bit to where in reality, it’s important in marketing, you actually want to address who your customers are not. But a lot of that is a choice. So the company of who their customers should be. And so by doing those aspects, I think it’s interesting that they’re basically saying, we are choosing that we want customers that are like this.

Rob McNealy
Oh, I get it. And you know, and the thing is, it’s interesting to me, at least with a publicly held company with a private company. I don’t have any issue with that, right? I mean, I mean, basic marketing, you start off with micro, you know, market segmentation, and you figure out who exactly your customer looks like, but generally, you want to get as many of those as you possibly can. And but now, it’s like, was certain, you know, companies, it’s like, they’re choosing deliberately to alienate potential customers. Yeah. Because they don’t agree with them. And that to me, I mean, I’m 47. So I’m a little older than you. And, and that’s new. That’s, that’s very new. That’s five years last five years. It’s totally something I’m just shocked by. But it’ll be interesting to see how it plays out and you know, ultimately comes down to, you know, making money and, and being successful and providing the products and service my mic. And my only thing about that is when you’re a public company, you know, do you have the luxury as a public company technically being a fiduciary to make those decisions? And I’m not and I’m not sure about that, you know, if that’s right or wrong. But to me, it’s like I, you know, to me, I want customers and and I don’t want to alienate them unless it’s something specific, like, you know, what I’m doing with our project. It’s very much a polarizing topic, so I can actually understand why I have to be political on some issues, but other issues I’m not so I don’t know. It’s interesting to see but it’s not about me today. It’s about you, and it’s about gab wireless. So tell me about you and your background. How did you you know, how did you get here and at such a young age because you definitely look younger than me. How did you get into such an executive position already?

Landon Ainge
Well, first off titles in startups mean nothing. So let’s just throw that out there. I think that’s important. Everyone needs to understand that. But second, I think, for me, my journey kind of went through switching back and forth from the investment side of things to operations back to investment backed operations. I think. For me, I went worked at Goldman for a little while then I went and did mergers and acquisitions that I wouldn’t operated in e commerce overstock.com. And to venture capital world. I think it’s a great experience. I think not being tied to one industry is really helpful. And that’s what’s helped me be able to recognize patterns across different industries. That’s truly I think, been the biggest education I’ve ever gotten. And kind of helped me get to where I’m at, to where I’m now at God wireless and I’m a well openly I’m a I’m a dad of two little beautiful girls, and And that kind of what sparked a little bit of me joining gab. gab wireless is a cell phone network company for dedicated and priority providing age appropriate devices. So we’re trying to protect kids by putting giving them devices that are the right way to introduce a phone. We’re trying to delay the introduction of smartphone because of the impact it has on kids when we introduce it to them.

Rob McNealy
Well, I have four children, and two of them are teenagers, and two of them will be teenagers soon enough. And, you know, we homeschool our kids. I don’t know, you know, if I’ve ever talked to you very much about my personal life, but actually we homeschool our kids and my oldest will be 17 and a few weeks and she’s just finishing up her sophomore year college and she’s a full time college student. She started when she was 14 part time, and she didn’t get her first cell phone until she was already a full time college student. Now, definitely she’s younger. And because we were very concerned about, you know, social media and things of that nature. And in fact, with our other children, we have a checkout phone, that we allow what they have to check it back into us. So we’re pretty strict. We don’t allow social media and none of our kids only our oldest right now has even has an email address. So and we definitely, you know, you know, kind of lockdown screentime and limit that. Some people say we’re horrible parents in mean and restrictive and controlling. But I also remember how I was growing up, and I had no parental controls on my life. And I definitely say that I grew up way too early. So what is gab doing to address? I guess, these kind of concerns that I might have, and must back up, what are the concerns that people have? What are the threats that parents are facing with kids having access to a smartphone?

Landon Ainge
Yeah, I think we’ve talked about 20,000 parents. So talk to a ton of parents are going through getting their feedback on what what their concerns are with technology, why? I don’t want to go too deep into specifically what their fears are. But I want to more focus on what the impacts of that technology are. Because the list of impacts I think, are way worse than what people’s fears are. People have lots of fears about like, kids going down dark corners and doing things that they shouldn’t be doing. But really, the concerns are in five categories. You’ve got just sleep deprivation being the biggest, when you have a device with a lot of stimulation that hits a point in kids brains, that keeps them everlean gauge that they don’t sleep, because they want to constantly have more of that. And if there’s one thing I can point to it’s sleep deprivation that’s changing kids and it’s hurting kids and It changes the word academic performance, their ability to communicate, it changes their emotional roller coaster that they’re already going on. But then you can point to kind of the social anxiety involved with social media. Social media is not bad. It’s just at an early age, it can destroy kids, they’re not ready to even communicate in person, let alone understand the complexity in the context of conversations and, and the lack of empathy that it develops with kids at an early age. And then kind of you can point to cyber bullying, pornographic content, addicted to gaming, there’s a lot of anything that does anything to isolate kids for very long periods of time. Pretty much that we can just all agree. I don’t get into politics, but this is parenting, it’s, but we just need them to be a little more careful. We’ve got this thing called technology and we say it’s great. And then we give it to everyone and I think we’re learning that Maybe not great for everyone, and maybe it needs to be a little bit more staged is all and openly, you’re really you’re really like protected, right? That’s who you are as a parent. But we’re trying to listen to all parents to say, We don’t care who you are, we’re going to provide a solution that you to figure out what age you think the solution is best for, you know, your child best, you know, their abilities, you know, their habits, what, what will do it and our way of doing that is pretty unique. And we can talk about that, because I’m so excited about it.

Rob McNealy
And we should do that. I think it’s important. So you touched on a little bit about, you know, the things that you’re providing a solution and all those different, you know, five categories of problems that people are dealing with. What do you say when maybe PE parents might come back and say, well, it’s just a parenting issue. You know, why can’t just let parents you know, be parents kind of thing or, you know, Maybe Do you get any pushback like that?

Landon Ainge
Yeah, I mean, parents are saying, hey, look, we don’t need any restrictions. And I would say, Okay, then you’re not our customer, like I talked to we talked about at the beginning, right? Like, then, if you don’t feel like any controls are necessary, and that’s great. I think what we’re learning now is that we’re taking an adult device and giving it to kids and telling them to regulate themselves, and we’re learning that their ability to do so is not and that we’re just providing options. There aren’t enough options out there. You have a flip phone, and you have a smartphone, and very little in between.

Rob McNealy
You know, I’m not convinced that a lot of parents and adults pivot in and figured out how to like control themselves either. So

Landon Ainge
I have my own issues with that, right? Like I need to, you know, the amount of time that I spend doing work on my phone when you know, maybe I should be more concentrated on with my girls like that’s, I struggle with that dailies right so In a startup world, that’s your life, you kind of, unfortunately, tends to consume. So I think we’re all struggling with that.

Rob McNealy
Well, you know, I think that it’s important to recognize that I think the first you know, thing that you need to do if you’re going to try to change or improve is to recognize there’s a problem. I think a lot. Unfortunately, a lot of people don’t even see there’s a problem. So tell me a little bit about what you guys are doing. What is your solution?

Landon Ainge
Yeah. So what we’ve done is we’re providing a network provides this age appropriate devices. And we’ve launched our first device on our first device. It’s a looks like smartphone, it feels and acts just like a smartphone and hold it up right here. There’s a device so it looks and feels got a touch screen. And so you, your kids get to play on it and they get to do what they want. But that being said, it’s a tool. It’s a functional tool, as a phone as an alarm clock has a calendar as texting even as a camera, but what it what it limits is External outreach or external entertainment. So there’s no App Store. So you’re not going to download any social media or games or any of that aspect. There’s no browser. And then our first phone doesn’t allow you to send group or picture messages. Now why, why that’s important is it truly is just a functional device then. And it’s meant to communicate and help connect people, and adds the benefits of having a touchscreen phone with applications that add function. But our role is to help them maintain a life outside the screen. So parents reason for getting kids fun is to communicate with them. And so their kids can communicate with their, with their parents and with their friends.

Rob McNealy
So why so if you’re just limiting the lot of the Smart App kind of things, why not just use like kind of a flip phone?

Landon Ainge
Well, that’s a good question. Ask your kids openly it’s more it’s a really important thing for kids to understand. For them, it’s their social acceptance foot on some connotation That is really negative. It’s a cause for being made fun of. and appearance is really important to kids young age. And there’s a reason they’re wearing their fake Ray Bans and looking really good and why they look at certain types of clothing, its appearance is really important. And we’ve learned that from past companies that have tried to make kid devices that they made them to Kitty, and that’s the reason why it didn’t work. They don’t want to stick out from a parent’s perspective, even if they don’t necessarily want it. We’ve had teenagers come to us and say, I don’t want social media. I don’t want any of that stuff. And but because I have it on my phone, that’s a path of least resistance to where I just go there. But you know, but that appearance really is important.

Rob McNealy
So is your device capable of adding those functionalities say as a kid grows on Older? So for instance, you can, isn’t it there are options to add in functionality at some point or is it just permanently locked down.

Landon Ainge
So our goal is to provide a stepwise function to kind of help kids graduate. Our first device here, does what it does. And it’s $100 device. So it’s like really easy, really palatable for parents, it’s a month to month contract, introduce it when you want. And then when they’re ready, they’ll graduate to either that next device that we introduce or to the family plan on a smartphone, when they’re ready for that type of behavior will start to introduce those we won’t be doing, you know, we won’t be introducing kind of a, that they’ll have YouTube on this, or they’ll have other entertainment apps on there. It’s really a we will add more functionality and more functional apps but, but none of the entertainment aspects until they’re ready. And once they’re ready for that entertainment. We recommend parental controls on on a smartphone.

Rob McNealy
So what kind of time Technology is this what kind of hardware software? is this? Is it a Linux based unit? What kind of oS? Is it running?

Landon Ainge
Yeah, so it’s a custom binary operating system. It’s actually exclusive to Gabb. But it’s based off of the Google Android system. Because of the unique nature of what we’ve done. It is exclusively to ours. And we work closely with one of the top phone manufacturers in the world zt to co develop that exclusively for our network.

Rob McNealy
I was just thinking, because, you know, it’s amazing and how smart kids are when they’re trying to get access to something. Technologically, I’ve been surprised with my own kids at how young they will, they’ll work really hard to get into things that they’re not supposed to. And I was just worried. I was wondering, you know, How hard would it be to like, you know, you know, crack it or, you know, jailbreak it or something like that.

Landon Ainge
A really good question. It’s pretty hard because it’s done at the manufacturing level. That’s the reason we did it. because it provides greater security and stabilization there, that even to kind of factory resets and other things that they try to do. It maintains it. But that being said, you know, not every nothing is in penetrable in my mind, at least from what I’ve experienced in technology. So I think that someone, I, someone someday, I think will definitely do that. But for most of the children and most kids that we’re doing, dealing with, concerned about.

Rob McNealy
So for the smart kids in there that, you know, they’ll try to do you know, they can still get in trouble with texting, right, because it still allows, you know, you know, Ms. You know, SMS messages, that kind of thing.

Landon Ainge
Yeah, so for the smart kids, but he, I guess my you’re saying people can get into trouble. Yeah, I mean, right. What we’re trying to do is we’re not trying to remove parental involvement for those parents and say, Look, it’s printing problem or parental question. That’s kind of true. This we are here to provide a technology solution that makes it a little bit easier. But a parents still should be involved in introducing a phone that here’s this new responsibility. This is what’s appropriate to text and call and this is what we shouldn’t shouldn’t do. But that’s an easy conversation compared to here’s a supercomputer. Right? Like, yeah, so the question I would have, is there a lockout? Can the kid lock the parents out from seeing what they’re texting? Or is there a way for the parent to have like a super password to kind of monitor that piece? Yeah, so we don’t have monitoring right now and really talking to kids. What they like about phone is look that has a camera and their ability to talk to friends, and then it doesn’t have spyware. Really, we’ve tried to say, okay, what’s appropriate, let’s, let’s drive that conversation. And when your kid is ready to have that responsibility, that’s when they should get a phone now We should get them a phone and then we should try to monitor everything they’re doing on it. Let’s change that conversation and say, is my child ready for a phone? And if so, how do I have those conversations to make sure they are, and that we indicate to go through those aspects. So there’s no monitoring, there’s ability to lock it. We always give out kind of a, we try to recommend a family contract when you give a kid a phone of these are what the expectations are to have a phone. This is what we do. You always share the password mostly because kids forget and lose their password. That’s First of all, but also because it’s important for parents to do it. We recommend centralized charging stations so kids shouldn’t have their phones when they go to their rooms. Just if you don’t want to get your kid into trouble just let’s just say everyone in the family charges their phones in one place that will help adults and kids in our habits that maybe need to improve.

Rob McNealy
I think that’s pretty wise actually. So Gabb Wireless you know starting a phone company it sounds like a lot of work and a lot of money. How are you guys funded?

Landon Ainge
Um, we we ran an Indiegogo actually to get started. So that was really cool. It’s kind of cool as they were telecom real nationwide telecom company right now and we started on Indiegogo. Once we got customers and we got pre orders, we were able to close kind of a Angel round and right now we’re closing our seed round to prepare and we’re about to scale pretty large for Black Friday and Cyber Monday.

Rob McNealy
So you guys are already out then so I could buy one of these for my kids right now.

Landon Ainge
Get in three days. Free shipping.

Rob McNealy
Are you where are you saw you sold in retail stores or online? Only Amazon? Where can people where do people get it?

Landon Ainge
GabbWireless com. That’s pretty easy. There’s one phone and one plan Choose to take it and we ship it directly to you. You have a account you create month a month. And like I said, flexibility we’re not like, or not like most telecom providers, we’re here to say we’re here to provide a solution and make it easy. And whatever we can do to make your life easier, apparently easier just in a little bit makes a big difference.

Rob McNealy
So you said that the phone itself is about 100 bucks. What are the payment options? What are the payment plans look like?

Landon Ainge
Yes, it’s $19.99. Talks, unlimited talking text with cover policy there. So it’s pretty simple. Just one bucks a month. Here you go. month a month you decided when you introduce.

Rob McNealy
So we’re so we’re coming into that holiday week and I don’t even like to call the day. The day that will be named what the one that’s right after Thanksgiving. Black Friday, so you guys got anything coming up for Black Friday?

Landon Ainge
Yeah, some pretty amazing stuff coming Black Friday. So much. So that like Can’t even up. It’s good. So anyone that is interested in guy was just either follow us on Instagram or Facebook. And we will tell you when it goes live and pretty much if you’re thinking about buying iPhone, you’ll want to buy a whole nother

Rob McNealy
Landon, where can people find out more?

Landon Ainge
GabbWireless.com

Rob McNealy
Landon, thank you so much for coming on the show today and I hope you have a wonderful weekend.

Landon Ainge
Thank you. You too. Have a great weekend.

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Truth Raider Bitcoin Interview Transcript

Truth Raider, Bitcoin Community Influencer

Note: This transcript was automatically generated by artificial intelligence (AI) and therefore typos may be present.

Rob McNealy
Today I have the excitement because I’m talking to truth Raider. He is a pretty big Bitcoin advocate and influencer in the crypto space. So I’d like to welcome to the show. How are you today? Truth Raider?

Truth Raider
Hey, doing pretty good, Rob.

Rob McNealy
Well, good. Well, I really do appreciate your time and coming out with us. I know you’re really busy. I was having some illness this week. So it kind of was a little hard to get everything scheduled out. But so. So for some of our audience, which is not 100% crypto focused. Tell us a little bit about your background and how you kind of came into the crypto space.

Truth Raider
So I’ve been in I’ve only been in Bitcoin and crypto for about three years. I’ve kind of followed the evolution of it although with the dark web and deep web and I’ve followed peer to peer networks. Everything from back in the day with Napster and limewire for us wire I mean, peer to peer is something that’s not new. And I think a lot of people that have been kind of messing around with this technology Bitcoin was kind of a natural evolution. And so that’s kind of how I I knew about Bitcoin since its inception but really never got into it till about 2017 and now I’m here for the ride.

Rob McNealy
Well, it’s kind of funny you must be close to my age when you start using words like Napster I think a lot of these young guys at a millennial type so talking but I do so just you don’t have to doctor yourself or whatever but what what can what’s your your main type of occupation?

Truth Raider
So right now working on a basically, I’m working with a company here at a mining store. It may not have it’s a Bitcoin mining company, based out of Houston, Texas, and then we’re basically partnered with them, and our company based out of Pittsburgh. And right now our big focus area is we’re working on bringing foreign miners into the states, essentially, that’s kind of mine and my partner’s big play right now is trying to get a lot of the foreign mining into the United States, because right now our we only have about 5% of that entire market in the world. So it’s, it’s kind of that’s kind of the focus for me and the company I work for, essentially.

Rob McNealy
So, how is a minor? Say, I’m a minor and I’m in a foreign country, why would I want to come to the United States to mine? You know, from what I understand, it seems like, you know, other places like China, it’s a lot cheaper to get the electricity. What would be the appeal of being a minor in the United States?

Truth Raider
So there’s a lot of reasons why. It kind of covers the gamut. So you’ve got regulations are becoming more friendly. Because of the so you, you kind of got like this, this merging of. So the reason why Texas makes so much sense is because of the oil and natural gas industry. So you’ve already got this infrastructure in place, and certain places like Texas or Pennsylvania, where we’re at more New York, Washington state, where you’ve got everything from hydro electricity to natural gas to existing factories that can scale and do industrial scale Bitcoin mining. Solar is becoming a new play, a wind is becoming a play. And so you have you already have the companies that basically can go from doing what they do naturally, and just saying, hey, we’ll also do Bitcoin mining, or will do or will provide energy for your Bitcoin miners, so it’s kind Like it’s almost like a natural transition for a lot of these energy companies and US based companies to just say, Hey, we’re open to providing you lower costs, and using our infrastructure to just mine. So that’s why you’re seeing like, right now, you’re not seeing a lot of it in the news. But for example, yesterday, it was in the news of a one gigawatt facilities opening in Texas. You know, it’s going to be the largest one in North America. It’s opening, you know, they just started literally 24 hours ago. And then you’ve got company. Yeah, one gigawatt, which is massive, you know.

Rob McNealy
Like a nuclear power plant?

Truth Raider
Yeah, it’s essentially this scale. That’s why basically they took over an old plant that was already being used for within the oil and natural gas industry and just are converting it essentially to new Bitcoin mining, you know, and that’s, that’s one way that it’s going to scale in the US. But additionally, you’ve got companies moving into Texas and Arizona and different places in California even, they’re going to do solar and wind. And then hydro is also going to start growing. So people think that energy is really expensive in the United States, but it really isn’t. When you think about the fact that we already have the infrastructure, it’s just a matter of the old school miner, or the old school energy guys saying, Yeah, we’ll do Bitcoin too. And that’s slowly starting to happen. It’s kind of an education thing.

Rob McNealy
You know, have you looked at anything up in like, Gillette, Wyoming, and, you know, wyotech mines that are up there, by chance as a possible location. I think Peabody Energy is one of the big energy companies up there.

Truth Raider
Not Wyoming. We’ve got a couple places in Iowa, North Dakota. Like I mentioned, Pennsylvania, Maine, New York. There’s A few places that we’re looking to set up shop. But right now, those are usually a little bit smaller in scale, whereas in Texas you have the access, potentially to an unbelievable amount of energy to produce, you know, for these for these foreign miners and so most people just they’re not paying most people right now, like if you look at the Bitcoin or crypto space, what is everybody looking at today? On November, whatever Today is November 21. What do people give a shit about right now today? know the price of bitcoin? That’s it. That’s it, right? Like I’d say 99% of the people in the space. All they do is follow charts and pay attention to what the price is doing. You know, meanwhile, the 1% which is the people like the article I mentioned today, which was, you know, companies dropping 150 million dollar investment into Texas to build a warranty. gigawatt a Bitcoin mining farm, you know, so on on a day where the or the bitcoin price dumped? I don’t even know what it dumped 5% 6% Today, I’m not sure but it wasn’t a good day. However, people that have basically vision are saying, you know, what, who cares about short term price points, let’s let’s look at this as an industry and, and I think most of the crypto space is missing the big moves, you know.

Rob McNealy
So the, you know, when it comes down to mining with a six the two bottlenecks that you know, keep a lot of people out or, you know, one access to, you know, affordable energy that make it, you know, profitable but the other part is the hardware of the miners. And it seems like right now, that so much of the that equipment is just, you know, kind of, you know, made by, you know, one or two companies. What do you think that effect is on the mining industry Do you think that’s going to like There’s gonna be more opportunities for manufacturers to, you know, create more competition to bring the price those basic type processors down.

Truth Raider
So I don’t. So what you’re going to have right now, what’s going on right now and the mining equipment sphere is so everybody in the United States essentially is using at minor s nines, you know, so that that’s kind of what the big, you know, the the most popular minor out there. But once the happening happens and kind of what’s happening right now, is everybody’s transitioning from the s nine to the 17th or Canaan’s got some new ones coming out or what’s minor, where you’re talking anywhere from 50 6070. Tara hash, you know, which is just dwarfs the S nine. So what you’re going to end up seeing is you’re going to see an unbelievable amount of s nines on the market that are basically not even useful to mind with. And so the basically the moral of this story is 2019 and early 2022, mid 2020 is going to wash out most of the the private personal miners. Most of these guys are going to get washed out because of energy prices as well as hash rate increases with the within these pools. And so profits are going to go down. So really what you’re going to see is like, like what I just told you, a one gigawatt mining farm opening with an ungodly amount of miners, you know, that are going to go into that facility. You’re going to see more of that in the States, you’re going to probably every couple weeks, or if not every month or so you’re going to see a story that says, hey, we just built a 500 megawatt facility. Here’s a gigawatt facility. You know, here’s some major companies that are coming in. So what you’re saying is all These small scale miners are going to get washed out. And it’s going to be an into institutional and a corporate play when it comes to Bitcoin mining. I think that’s what I see.

Rob McNealy
Do you think that’s a good thing for Bitcoin? I think, from a centralization kind of point of view,

Truth Raider
I think it. I mean, if you’re talking, I think it is potentially, if the you if us in North American companies, get on board, you know, if it’s just Chinese miners moving to the United States, then it’s really it’s a centralized play, you know, because what they’re doing is just gaining more access to cheap energy. But if you start seeing European and American companies and North American companies saying, Hey, this is a smart idea, why don’t we set up shop and do our own thing? Then I think it’s a good thing in a decentralizes the mining space, but there’s a The problem is that China makes 100% of hardware right now. Right? That’s, that’s the, that’s the issue that the overarching issue is, we really need like a Germany or somebody who’s really good at technical manufacturing, you know, at an industrial scale, we need like a Germany to come online and makes a version of a six miners or, you know, or or some other country to make hardware. That’s what we need.

Rob McNealy
You know, that’s one thing I haven’t figured out is, is, you know, I can see, you know, power plants would that have excess capacity and things, you know, you go talk to the guys with the tall hats and and you just give them a spreadsheet and the chart and they can they can make the they can make the connections right and see the opportunity. It doesn’t make sense to me. Yes. I don’t understand enough about chip manufacturing. It seems like there should be a lot of opportunity in the hardware space that other companies popped up to do that. And you know, is it just that the the chip manufacturers that there’s no is there nobody in the United States can even make a chip? Is that kind of the issue with that right now?

Truth Raider
I think it’s, um, it’s a matter of scale. So there’s a city in China called shins in. And I probably put I probably butchered the name

Rob McNealy
sounds good to me.

Truth Raider
So, basically, this city is a very good example of the way China does business is they’re just they’re out to just mass produce everything. In at scale, so for example, bit main is like everybody knows bit means like, big player, right? Well, I’m a competitor that’s up and coming is a company called Canaan, right? Who they just did an IPO for like 100 plus million dollars in the States. But they’re going to compete very, very heavily with bit main, but the thing is, Kanan has the Same business model is bit me. It’s just mass produce just mass produced in mass mind, Bitcoin. It’s a very simple model. It’s not a very innovative model, as far as the industry goes, but that’s why you don’t see American or European companies competing with them is, for example, like, like I said, with the ant miners, you know, like they had the S nine. Now they’re going to have the 17. They’re just looking for new ways to increase the hash rate for mining. And basically what it does is they’re able to mass produce those devices, those that hardware, and no American or European company can keep up with the pace. That’s that’s the overarching issue. And I don’t see it changing. To be perfectly honest, you know, on the hardware front, on the mining front, I think we can catch up. Or we can bridge the gap. We can’t catch up but we can we can We can close the gap.

Rob McNealy
For that you that location down in Texas, how many you know how many actual miners are going to be running in a facility like that with a gigawatt of power?

Truth Raider
I’m not sure like, I mean, you look at, for example, we’re working with a company that’s trying to they’re trying to fulfill its I think it’s 4000 t 17 miners, and that’s about 10 megawatts, you know, so for about 4000. So, I mean, we’ll do the math on, you know, on what it takes to get you to a gigawatt. It’s a shitload of miners, you know, like, it’s a lot so.

Rob McNealy
So, I was at World Crypto Con in Vegas a couple weeks ago and they had, you know, the whole mining area down there and there’s some innovating stuff, innovative stuff from the standpoint of cooling and and, you know, keeping the, you know, the packs of miners, the racks like really more tight together. So they figured out different ways of cooling and there’s Seems to be there are some interesting efficiencies that they could probably gain, you know, with the cooling side of things as well. So the question I have the havening that, you know, you’re hearing about this a lot, and, you know, everybody’s got a different opinion about it, what it’s going to do to the price. And my concern is Ben, you know, you know, you can’t necessarily say that Bitcoin is going to do what it did four years ago because the entire crypto universe is very, very different now. The markets very different now. regulations are very different now. There’s thousands of new projects that came and went and are still in operation now. So you know, past performance is not always indicative of future you know, results but the question is, a lot of people do think that bitcoins gonna pump and everybody’s going to get excited about the halvening I mean, what’s your take on that? Do you think people are gonna is it gonna pump or do you think it’s just gonna happen?

Truth Raider
I’ve my personal opinion is that I talked to a lot of people on Twitter just going back and forth on predictions and stuff. So, like, for me, I, I think Bitcoin at $10,000 is an amazing price. Like it’s a it’s a stable price, whether it goes from 10,000 to 100,000, or 50, or whatever the number is 10,000 is a psychological number. When people you know, that are out there in the space, say, you know, how much is Bitcoin, right? And you tell them it’s 10 K, they’re just like, what? It just it blows their mind they don’t understand that like it because what’s the price of a physical, you know, of gold, the gold spot price, you know, it’s it’s nothing. So I think it’s a it’s a psychological game. So when the when the block happening, happens and it goes down to 6.25. Essentially, I don’t think that’s going to create a bull run. I think we’re still going to be in a bear market until probably the end of 2020 2021 maybe somewhere in there. I mean, We may go up, you know, we made two or three x the price, but I don’t think the real I personally don’t think the real bull market starts until you have things like ETFs that are that are open, you know, like, you’ve got a multiple ETFs out there, you’ve got multiple institutions that are trading. They’re using Bitcoin openly. And I think that I think we’re still we’re still like two years away from even the beginning of that, from my opinion. So that’s why I think end of 2021 probably is more realistic for a lot of these companies to onboard into bitcoin right now, nobody knows about Bitcoin, you ask 10 people, if you go in the street or to university and you ask 10 people what is Bitcoin? What does it do? You’re going to get 10 probably nine out of 10 people are going to stare at you like you’re crazy.

Rob McNealy
You know, play that game, actually. And my results have been very different. Everybody I asked has heard the word Bitcoin They don’t get it. Like what it is they think that they understand internet money. And that’s about where the extent of it, but the name recognition I find is pretty, pretty prevalent among the people that I talked to. Now their opinion of it is they don’t understand it. Or there’s a negative connotation with the being scammy or rip off. That’s kind of what I’m seeing out there.

Truth Raider
I agree with you. I agree with you that they all have heard of it. But there’s a difference, I think between like I play poker with 12, my buddies, you know, I brought as an experiment, I asked him that question. Hey, guys, you guys know about Bitcoin? Like, yeah, we all heard about it, you know, we saw it on TV, you know, that’s a huge difference from I understand what it does, what the functionality of Bitcoin is, as well as how do you physically use it? Like, that is a huge educational gap for probably 95% of the people in the US. You know, I would say

Rob McNealy
Try explaining a decentralized organization to someone on the street that’s a little more complicated.

Truth Raider
Or even not even trying to explain the the core about Bitcoin, but just how do you physically use it? How do you physically transfer Bitcoin? Most people will look at you like you’re crazy. Just even if you just said what I just said, How do you transfer Bitcoin from one person to the next? Show me how to do it.

Rob McNealy
What I kind of tell people, you know, when it comes to crypto, I always kind of put myself in, you know, in the person’s mind, right? And with our project, I actually am out there talking and doing sales already with our project. And I’m in retail stores talking to retailers. In fact, we started talking to retailers before we coated anything because we built it for a purpose. And what I explain when it comes to crypto is like, it’s like it’s like cash app or Venmo. But it doesn’t use dollars as the underlying value. And they’re like, Oh, I get that. And then in them when I say, you know, there’s no Corporation. It’s the Z centralized project. What I have found is that if you say it’s kind of like a nonprofit that’s built to run this project, you know, project and people seem to could they can wrap their head around that. You know, now I don’t I know it’s not technically a nonprofit, because that’s a corporation too. But, but when if you say it like that, you know that there’s no Corporation, but it’s more like a nonprofit group that runs this. People can make they can make sense of that, I think. And that’s seems to work pretty well, when I talk to people.

Truth Raider
Well, if you try to break it down in its core, right, Bitcoin is software. Like if you just said, If you and how do you explain the fact that Bitcoin is software like that, literally, that’s what it is. I mean, it’s only money because we’ve monetized it. But essentially, is just a software that’s constantly running. And so nobody’s ever going to understand that, you know, like you because then you start getting deeper and deeper into how does it work, you know, and then you start talking about blocks. I mean, try explaining blocks to somebody on the street.

Rob McNealy
You know, I don’t know if I can explain to them myself half the time. But here’s the thing is that try to explain how settlement happens on swift with debit cards, nobody knows. They use the debit card, they know how it works, they know that it works, they trust that it works, they have faith that it will work. You know, I don’t think the average person you know, this is I think we’re you know, engineers kind of ruined everything you know, is that engineers the build it they will come mindset doesn’t work. And I’m not picking on engineer that worked around engineers my entire professional life. So I love engineers, but you don’t want the engineer in charge of marketing neither. But what you find is that people you know, engineer types really want to get their really excited and geek out about the technology or the features, you know, that kind of thing. Whereas people don’t care about features as much as they do about benefits. You know, if this solves a problem for me, show me how it solves my problem. And that’s all they care about, you know, when I started talking to retailers, and that’s my focus is talking to retailers and getting them on boarded into crypto, you know, they want to know, how do I deal with taxes? How does it integrate with my point of sale? And how easy is it to work? And is it safe? That’s what they want to know. They don’t care about servers and miners and block producers and whatever else, they don’t give a shit. And one day anymore? No, because it doesn’t matter to them. They want to know that they can cash out is there you know how valid they are. You know, a lot of the retailers I talked to they are concerned about volatility. Well, it goes up and down. Well, when you cash out quick, you just don’t sit on it if you don’t want. But I think that’s the thing. People get lost, they get lost in the technology and the average person, if you’re trying to say adoption won’t happen till the average person understands finance, economics, the Federal Reserve System, inflation and fiat money, and you have to educate the entire planet on those things. And that’s what adoption you’re never going to get Adoption will never happen. One, most people don’t give a shit. And people don’t give a shit until they have a problem, you know, a recognized problem. And I think that’s where that’s why I think like a lot of people, they’re struggling to get adoption because they still think like, oh, people need to come up in this level of knowledge. And I don’t think they do. I don’t think they need to come up with that for there to be adoption of crypto. I’m sorry.

Truth Raider
No, I agree completely. You’re 100% right. I mean, the problem that a lot of us get sucked into myself included is, you know, because the more I research it, Bitcoin, the more I study it the more I try to educate myself, you fall into a trap of over explaining the simplicity of it. It’s, it’s a natural thing, because you’re so interested in how it works. So you, you tend to oversee, you know, so here’s, I think, the way it works in a very simple manner is like to try to explain to somebody is I guess it’s like Western Union. PayPal without the third party involved. So you’re sending, you’re sending, you’re sending your currency to another person without the third party, but it’s very similar to PayPal, except for you don’t need a bank to settle the payment. It’s just a direct payment between you and another human being, you know, without that third party, and I think, because people know how PayPal works, you know, you got your email you sent to somebody else’s email. And somehow magically, the banking system settles, right. It’s the same as PayPal without the banking system, essentially.

Rob McNealy
And I think even going that deep is probably unnecessary. Interesting story. So my day job a long time ago, I used to be a contractor. And I don’t hide this, you know, I’m very public about my, my, you know, I have a real day job. I’m an entrepreneur and I have a day job and I have our crypto projects so i don’t i don’t hide it on my LinkedIn, whatever. I’m totally docs, but you know, I found when I was this is probably 15 years ago when I thought started getting into sales of I my business. I would try to educate my clients and everything they needed to know to make the best buying decision and my average sales time with these people are 45 minutes to an hour. And I call people back like a week later and they’re like all I want with somebody else but thank you I loved your presentation. What do you mean why didn’t you go with Well, they were cheaper than you. And what I found and and i over I was over explaining what I was doing. It was I was giving me I was doing my job and giving them everything they needed to know to make a really informed decision and be really smart about it because I wanted them to be smart. And what ended up happening is I wasn’t closing sales. So what I ended up doing I found out is I cut my sales pitch by pitch to half the time to a half hour and I doubled my sales in true story, true story and and it was hard for me to wrap my head around it because I was trying To educate people in a way that I wanted to be sold, right? Yeah, the problem is, most you know, and I find this, especially with guys like that are smart. And most the people that I know that are in crypto are smart. Okay. You know, they’re curious, they’re smart. They’re questioning, you know, I haven’t run into too many stupid people in crypto, at least that are working in crypto. And, and so, as smart people, we want to have respect for other people’s intelligence, I think where we’re like, Hey, I think you’re a good person. And I want to treat you with respect, and I want to value your intelligence. So You two must want to have this knowledge. But I don’t think the average person does. I think you lose them. I think it gets complicated. And I think if you know, you have to recognize that there are different people have different you know, they kind of perceive the world differently. They have the world and the average person has an average IQ. So right I mean, that’s not mean Yeah, it’s not mean. But that means but in the United States, right? The average IQ in the US is about 100. Okay, yeah, that means half the people you run into at Walmart or at the mall or at the bank, have below average IQ. That’s how averages work, you know? So you got to just You got it. I don’t mean to dumb it down, but you gotta, you gotta explain things in a way that makes sense to them. And you gotta always have it I always say, you know, you have to sell people in a way that they want to be sold. Don’t sell people on how you think you should be sold. And I found that that made a big difference in my success in business is that you just have to kind of evaluate who you’re dealing with and and make it make sense for them. And and that’s not insulting is just, you know, if you try anything with this way, right, you’re I can tell you’re a smart guy, and I read your Twitter so I know you’re a pretty smart guy. You know if you go in as a smart guy to Someone who maybe is just average. And you try to explain all this technical engineering kind of mumbo jumbo. How they might take that as you think you know it all right? I mean, that happens or if they’re a woman, maybe now you’re mansplaining. You know, there’s all these kind of an end as a smart guy, you’re like, No, I just I don’t think like that. I’m not mansplaining and I don’t think I’m the smartest guy in the room. I just know excited about this. And, and I think that’s where a lot of guys in crypto miss it, because they don’t have a hard time with that. And they do. I have a hard time with it too. But I think that, you know, as we’re trying to get adoption, we just need to be cognizant of the world is not who we are typically, you know, and we’re thought you know, with we’re pioneers right now, people like our thought leaders, they’re, they’re early adopters, early adopters are different than average people. Most people don’t early adopters are the early adopters won’t be a thing. Right?

Truth Raider
And I agree with everything you’re saying, Man, and like it’s hard for me. Like I said, I got it in 20 17 so it’s really hard for me to look at myself as an early adopter per se. I mean, because I’m, I came in years and years after all these guys. But then, like you said, like, I’m not an early adopter, but I got into it fairly early, you know, essentially, because when you talked to people about Bitcoin, they’re so lost, and just the basics of it. So yeah, I’m very new. I’ve only been at for three years, I’m fairly new. However, there’s a huge knowledge gap between somebody that’s never touched Bitcoin, and somebody that has been using it for a while. So when I was I was in Malta a couple of weeks ago, and I was doing I was on a panel for talking about Libra and lightning and da O’s and stuff. And I basically was defending lightning. And so I was looking back at some of the clips of when I was talking, and I was like, probably in that room in that conference room. There was probably like six dudes that understood what the hell I was talking about. The rest of them were all just like, yeah, lightning sounds like it’s a good thing. Because I was I was basically defending lightning because I’m a huge fan of lightning essentially. And, but at the end of the day, like you said, people just want to know that lightning either works, or it doesn’t work. That’s really the that’s the crux of it. And so, I think sometimes people like me and other people that really want to defend it. We get so caught up in the logistics of it all, you know, so.

Rob McNealy
Well, well, it’s interesting because, you know, I and I’m not here just push on what I’m doing. But you know, I’m not I’m working on a crypto project. That’s not Bitcoin. Yeah, and a lot of maximalists and I’m not a maxi though, just so for all transparency. Of the four main projects that I have personal investments in our Bitcoin, a theorem, Raven, and Tusk, which is my project, so I am an investor in all those projects. So understand I’m not here hating on anybody. But, you know, when we started our project two years ago, I mean, lightning was still you much earlier on. And you know, everybody’s like, because I get, I mean, as a project, I mean, you’re in the mining side, but you know, I’ve been in this project for a couple years, almost and you wouldn’t believe the hate that you get for being a project from the Maxis and the different communities it’s pretty awful at times. And one of the person said, Why don’t you just do what you’re doing on Bitcoin? And I said, well, bitcoins not designed for retail never was intended to block work.

Truth Raider
And I agree, I agree the current format your.

Rob McNealy
You know, Bitcoin Cash, and again, I am not political, I’m not in any of those communities at all. But Bitcoin cash is actually more would be better for a retail environment than Bitcoin to court, just what is just not there. And so, but I said this, and someone said, What about lightning? And I said, well, and this is about eight weeks ago on the lightning Twitter long timeline, and this is just like eight weeks ago from now, right? They posted on on the lightning network Twitter, do not or I’m sorry, timeline on Twitter, do not put any more money into the lightning network and still software could be buggy and don’t put any more money into the lightning network that you’re not willing to lose. And that was on their own Twitter account. It’s still there. And, and and I pointed out to this guy, I go, Okay, well, if I’m going in and talking to a retailer and I’m trying to solve a problem with crypto, whether it’s mine or someone else’s, I certainly can’t go and tell them to do Lightning when that’s what’s on Lightning’s Twitter timeline just a few weeks ago, that tells me that it’s not ready for it’s not ready for prime time even yet.

Truth Raider
And that was my argument in Malta. And I’ve never I argue this that that what you just said it’s still in beta, you know, it’s like it’s like an ever I argue that it’s that it can it can be something amazing. I don’t argue that it that it is exactly success experiments experimental right now,

Rob McNealy
You know, once you know crypto is experimental, and this is what I tell people, you know, and and, and I’m kind of agnostic. I know I I it’s funny because with this with even with my, you know, podcast here I interview all sorts of projects in crypto. And then it’s not even though I’m I got my own project, you know, I’m here I want to talk to other people because I, I’m excited about the space and in my happy world, I don’t believe there will be nor should there be just one crypto for the planet. I think that’s actually dangerous inherently centralizing. And to me, it’s like, there will be multiple kryptos and in fact, I would rather there be 200 dozen my own, you know, ideal place. There’s 200 really, really well designed communities around 200 different block chains that all seamlessly coexist and atomic swap between one another. To me, I think that’s actually much safer than having like, you know, fewer and fewer crypto projects that are more and more centralized behind them. And to me, I think that long term that would actually be better for society, because of the beauty of what I see as crypto is that You know, we talked about the honesty and the transparency and the scarcity and, you know, and inflation rates that are known in the open source nature of crypto makes them superior to Fiat. Right. They’re not necessarily subject to governments, politicians whims. But what I see is that the other benefit of kryptos is that you can tailor them and program them for specific purposes, regions, industries, companies, and we don’t talk about that enough that there could be a know maybe there should be a crypto for the shipping industry. Maybe there should be a crypto and you’re starting to see more of that. But I don’t think we talked about that enough. And because there’s so I think, I mean, you’re out there probably more than I am, but it seems like a lot of these projects are really trying to like, oh, our project is the greatest and you know, we hate that community over there and they fight and it’s all stupid, and I’m like, Look, there’s no reason why Bitcoin can’t do one be one thing and This other crypto projects do this other one thing, and they could work together on that. And to me, the ultimate goal is to decentralize and free people from the state as much as possible. What do you think about you know, the idea of that, you know, there can be kryptos for specific purposes and industries.

Truth Raider
Oh, I mean, I’m very extremely libertarian. So I mean, I’m all about the, the decentralized approach, but I don’t disagree and and I’m not a Bitcoin maximalist. I’m a Bitcoin realist. Like I in the fact that I’m a firm supporter of Bitcoin, I will be now and I’ll probably be 20 years from now just because it has its place. However, I agree with you as a realist. Let’s say lightning becomes amazing. It’s the greatest thing ever. Okay, well, that probably only let’s say, let’s say it does just as a use case, that only that would only solve a problem of speed, right? Because what lightning promises millions if not billions of transactions and capability, okay? Let’s say that happens. Well, I guarantee if lightning can do that there will be 100 other kryptos that figure out how to do the exact same thing and to move really quick and move really secure. So I agree with you, there will probably a blockchain project that that does really well in the medical arena. You know, that’s really good with medical blockchain and a shipping blockchain and aviation blockchain. And a I mean, you name it, there’s probably going to be another blockchain That’s better. Even if lightning succeeds or fails, there will be something better that does a specific task retail manufacturing. In real estate, I mean, there’s probably going to be like you said, hundreds of them that are really good at doing something that’s very specified. And meanwhile, bitcoins going to be sitting on the shelf just saying, Hey, keep it out. Guys. Keep going, you know as a store of value and pop Possibly a transactional crypto with lightning. But I think even if lightning succeeds, we’re going to have everything you just mentioned, hundreds of blockchains with a purpose, you know?

Rob McNealy
And we really we already have an analogue for that. Right? If you think about it, I mean, pretty much every government has in the, in the world, every country, every government has its own fee, there’s 150, or whatever, how many countries there are. And they technically seamlessly swap between, you know, between one and are we already have an analogue for that. Yeah. And if you think about it, that makes sense, right? People are no, well, you know, so you can say, look, well, you know, the United States has a coin, right? Switzerland has their coin, or currency, and then they trade and you can go with any airport and swap between one now and you explain, oh, well, can that make sense? So I mean, there’s lots of ways that you know, when you’re talking to the average person, you can explain these concepts went away that they might be familiar with, you know, and say, Look, there’s you know, hundreds of currencies around the world. You know, and they all talk to each other, and really kryptos like that, but just more in the digital format. And you take out the middleman and like, oh, and, you know, and, and I think that that makes a lot of sense. And I like that future better. I think that, I think a lot of maximalists and, you know, especially the old school guys, and you know, I used to be very active, actual big l libertarian politics. And one of the things that I find with being an ancap or being a libertarian is that whenever you get around activists of any hilke they tend to be the roughest around the edges, you know, what I’m saying is the earliest activists, the ones that really are the ones that spend years getting the ball rolling and making stuff happen and promoting it. Those guys do necessary work, right? That’s that’s how they start. But is like as these movements change and get more mature, different people come in, and in some ways usually take over the ones that have better social skills. They They have the ability to see things through. And I think maximalists and a lot of cases tend to be those guys, the earliest activists. So, you know, there’s a, there’s a saying that I’ve heard that I like that says, you know, pioneers, take the arrows and settlers take the land you know? Yeah. And I think that’s, I think that’s pretty true with you know, all these, you know, you know, the cannabis industry is like that, too. It’s like I was, you know, I’m pretty, you know, involved in politics in Colorado, especially during, you know, 10 years ago when they were, you know, getting it law medical and then legal for recreational use. And it’s interesting because the earliest people that were pushing it were literally the stereotypical hippies dude all the free the weed those kind of guys. And now you go to Colorado and in that industry, and it’s funny, because the regulations and a lot of ways pushed all those guys out to anyways, you know, one of the interesting things in Colorado with that is that you couldn’t get a license to work in any marijuana or cannabis related business. If you’ve ever been busted for Drugs.

Truth Raider
Seriously?

Rob McNealy
Yeah. And so think about that, right. Everybody who was in that industry was busted for drugs. That’s why they’re in the industry.

Truth Raider
Yeah, that they got into it because they wanted to try to find a way to get legal after all the drama.

Rob McNealy
And so so it’s interesting but if you go to Colorado now it’s it’s it’s there’s it’s still kind of an edgy industry but it’s very it’s very much corporate that it’s gotten a lot more mature and you know, you’re dealing you know, you still edgy like coat you know, crypto still edgy even the guys that are corporate II, you know, that came out of you know, traditional finance, there’s still the edge lords of traditional finance that are kind of showing up at the conferences, right. You know, they’re the ones that are like, I’ll still wear suit, but I can not wear a tie that’s edgy for them. But, but I think that’s the good I think that’s going to happen in crypto too. And I think eventually, five years 10 years from now the no one’s gonna know who most of the maximalists are, they won’t remember them because they’re going to be so I this is just because I see this with other political other people. Political and in paradigm movements is that those early activist and generally get washed out in the noise once things take off. And so I try not to take those guys too seriously. But I think they still performed a really important thing. And I totally have kudos and shout outs and respects to those guys because they did something important. But they also can be their own worst enemy as well. You know, I always say, say your retail, and I always kind of looking at it from the retailer standpoint, and I own a retail store before so I know a lot about retail. And, you know, say, I want to accept Bitcoin into my, my business. Where do you start? crypto Twitter right? Now, if you’re, you know, the business owner, you’re not maybe super technical, but you want to try something new. you’re frustrated with, you know, VESA screw, and you’re over whatever. And you go land on crypto Twitter, or Bitcoin talk or somewhere else and you run into maximalists. And you have a question about all this. Ch looks interesting. It’s faster than Bitcoin Core or what do you think about that? What do you think the responses to that poor retailer trying to learn? And put all those questions and and they’re going to run away.

Truth Raider
They’re gonna get nuked by 100 trolls getting all this stuff that they’re talking about it, you know,

Rob McNealy
Yeah and and so, to me that is actually an in my opinion one of the impediments right now of crypto is that I think in some ways it’s its own worst enemy and, and I and the bums me out because I mean I sought to up and people like oh you’re gonna do this project I’m like, oh, you’re a scam? What? I didn’t sell anything I didn’t nicey Oh, how am I a scam? You know? I don’t hide who I am. But it’s pretty funny. So, you know you I follow your Twitter and that’s how I actually found out about you originally. And you got a pretty big following on Twitter. What do you How did you get such a big following?

Truth Raider
Would you do so I started doing Lot of like I said, I used to be big into libertarian type conversation. Back in the day and my account I started my account 2015 I used to do more libertarian political type, like I’m pro I’m a pro gun guy. I got a shitload of guns I used to I used to be an ffl dealer back in the day. Nice. So like I’ve, I, I kind of was on that, you know, on the, to a spectrum libertarian guy. That whole, you know, area in it kind of has his place in Twitter, and then it kind of 10 you know, that I kind of just moved into crypto because it was a natural progression. You know, I think there’s a lot of people like me in that in that way. You know, libertarian guys that were looking for something that it was part of that you know, it was I don’t know, it’s it’s, it fits into the mold, really well. The whole decentralized decentralization and libertarian kind of, if you believe in both of those, it kind of go together a little bit. I would say,

Rob McNealy
I it’s funny, they bring up the gun thing. So that’s our, I don’t know if you know what we’re doing with TUSC, but we are focused on the gun industry with our project and then so it’s funny because I, you know, I go I spend more time in gun related conferences than crypto conferences. And I’m the only guy there talking about crypto, because there’s no one from the Bitcoin company or the Bitcoin project at gun things. It’s kind of funny, but you would be surprised, you know, because the gun industry has a really big problem with payments. really recognize problem and I always say this is that for adoption to happen, you need to focus on industries that have recognized problems. If you try to tell Grandma that she needs to go use Bitcoin to buy something at JoAnn Fabrics. And then by the way, it’s going to take maybe an hour or two for that to confirm. Oh, by the way, it’s really complicated. Oh, it’s expensive to that makes zero sense that for Grandma to do that you’re creating a lot more work and trouble and you’re going to stress to your poor grandmother out. But on the other hand, if you go talk to a gun retailer who the fact is they’re completely barred because of politics from using PayPal Venmo cash app, coin payments, token pay bit payments, or any of the other type of digital payment processing things and you talk about crypto, you would be surprised at how open they are to that concept of not getting their business shut down and being able to conduct business online. You know, and to me, there’s seven industries that have a recognized problem in the United States right now with traditional payments, and they’re all distasteful to somebody. And I have to point that out. So but and those are things like cannabis and guns and pornography and prostitution and gambling and pawn shops and refugees and immigrants. And those are the industries right now that have a problem. And to me, if you’re focused is on payments, which is what our focus is. You need to focus on those industries, because those are the places that actually have an issue that and they have a problem that needs to be solved that crypto does solve. And so far, we’ve had amazing response going and educating retailers. In fact, we got 15 retailers now that have already given us a verbal soon as our first payment gateways, that they’re going to accept us for payments. So we’re already real excited about this industry and 2020 is gonna be a really big year for us. So we’re pretty, pretty stoked. But you know, even if you’re in another project, you know, the main thing is, if it doesn’t matter, I mean, you need to focus if you’re trying to sell something to somebody, you need to sell somebody sell something to somebody, whether it’s script or anything else that has a problem and solve their problem. And I think a lot of these guys are like trying, especially engineers tend to fall into this building, they will come mindset, and that’s a myth building, they will not and you know, it’s great if you have an idea that You know, technologically might be amazing. But if you don’t have a plan, and way to put that solution to someone’s problem in front of the people who have that problem, I don’t think you’re going to get very far. And I think that’s what a lot of crypto people run into. But then again, most of the crypto people, I’ve Think about it, most of the crypto projects are led by developers. And there’s a huge least what I’ve seen with developers in general, is is a huge bias against sales and marketing people in general, they just don’t like sales, marketing. And I think that’s part of the culture. Developers are often introverted, and, you know, it’s not a bad thing. Our teams like the same way. I’m like, I’m the guy with the big mouth. So yeah, but it’s, but I think if people started opening their mind a little bit about what they’re trying to accomplish as far as getting adoption, if adoption is, you know, on the horizon, you know, you got to focus on solving people’s problems, and then you got to figure out a way how to get that problem, you know, solve for those people and put that in front of them. And that’s how you win and If you’re not doing that, then I don’t know how why it makes sense to me that there’s not a lot of adoption yet, is because people aren’t really doing that. You go look at the big projects out there and go look at their team pages, ones that actually have teams. And you will see, like, you might see a bunch of developers, but you really don’t see a whole lot in the way of the sales and marketing piece. Especially when you’re talking global projects where you might need, you know, you might need a sales leader for every country, you know, if you’re really trying to get adoption, I mean, that’s what it might take. But you don’t really see that being built out that way. So, where do you think the future is going to be if, say, I’m new, I’m coming into crypto, I want to get excited. I want to be a part of it. How would you recommend the average person who’s new to crypto to kind of get started and get their feet wet with this kind of industry?

Truth Raider
I would say if you don’t know anything about it, just go to go to Robinhood or coin base or an ATM. Just buy some Bitcoin and just try it out. Just test I mean, that’s, I think that’s step one is most people don’t know about that. Most people think it’s really complicated to to access Bitcoin. So I would say step one is if you know somebody that knows about it, just go get some. And that kind of thing that creates like a spark. So like my first the first Bitcoin I ever got was in Jacksonville, Florida at a Charlie shrem ATM and a gas station. I was like that was that that was my first gateway. And it was, it was because I just finished doing a shitload of research. I watch a lot of documentaries. I love documentaries. And I was just going through tons of them. And it just it kept popping up as a theme. So I was like, you know, I’ll go try this out. Let me just see what this this thing’s all about. You know, like I knew what it was. I knew it was used in the dark web with Silk Road. I know. I knew. I’d seen it on the dark web and the deep web. I’d seen you know people buying stuff and I never used it specifically. But I was super curious. And so finally I was like, You know what, let me just go to an ATM and buy it and I did. And and then it kind of you kind of go down a rabbit hole like you You started a project, you start you started the company started a project based on just that initial like, Hey, I think we have something here, you know, with with crypto. And I think that’s kind of what all of us we kind of went down that rabbit hole, you know, and and now we’re here and it’s an interesting ride because it it makes sense. At least to me, it really does. You know,

Rob McNealy
It made sense to me too. And that’s why I tell people I’m more I’m more bullish on crypto now than I was even two years ago when you know during the height of that craziness because but I agree with you and you know, I I’m real excited that you came on here I mean, this was a good conversation and and I’m happy to have you on anytime if you got something interest You want to share with my audience? Where can people find out more about you?

Truth Raider
I think the easiest way is just to go to either Truthraider.com I got a website just kind of shows the stuff I’m working on. Or just go to Twitter. At @TruthRaiderHQ is where I’m the most active. Thank you so much. I enjoyed this conversation immensely.

Rob McNealy
I appreciate it. Rob.

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