Mark Wittenberg – Paycent & XcelTrip Transcript

Mark Wittenberg - XcelTrip & Paycent

Note: This transcript was automatically generated by artificial intelligence (AI) and therefore typos may be present.

Rob McNealy
Hey, today I have to welcome back to the show. Mark Wittenberg How are you today, sir? Awesome. How are you? Good. How is snow Mexico today? Oh my god, I literally washed my car and it’s minus 12 Celsius this morning. It was minus 25 Celsius yesterday? I think so. So you like throwing ice cubes at it? How does that work up there? It’s great. You go through one of these car washes and it has an automatic dryer. So by the time you get out and wherever you gotta go, your car’s dry. It’s great. You know, we just got a couple days of snow here over our Thanksgiving holiday and I one of my little hobbies is that I actually like to rebuild old things and I rebuilt an old tractor and like a garden tractor, but it’s pretty beefy. And I got a giant like four foot wide snow blower PTO driven snow blower, Cashman Ford, and I got to try it out for the first time this season. So I was all excited and my wife’s just like shaking her head cuz she’s like it’s a little overkill for the suburbs had I’m like yeah but I just know blowed like six driveways of our neighbors all in like an hour so it was awesome so

Mark Wittenberg
I’m curious I’m curious to know how how are the neighbors feeling that got the frickin snow blowing yeah there were happy there you know I like to take care of my neighbors i think you know when it gets into like all these like libertarian kind of people they’re like, oh I want to you know I want to just not have government and I’m like yeah but the thing is if you’re going to have that you got to be able to work and support your neighbors and to me it’s not about talk you got to go out there and do work and to me I live that like to me, I my neighbors have helped me is really interesting. Like last year last fall, we put in some sod in our front yard. And like all my neighbors just walked down the street and started helping me put sod and it sounds a hard thing to do. And so to me, if any any way that I can go help my neighbors out the same way, you know, it works out and so I like that’s why I like my neighborhood my neighbors are pretty cool. And so we all kind of help each other out. But you know, it’s interesting like in Salt Lake some winters is like in the valley here where we were like in a valley and you know some winters we don’t get any snow at all. It’s kind of like Denver weather Denver is like this to you might get to maybe two years in a row where like March 65 degrees, but then every, you know, three years you get like four feet of snow. You know, so it’s like you gotta be prepared for either no snow or like a massive blizzard. So anyways, but I actually we have a big lot and I got a lot of sidewalks so I was getting sick of like, my kids were also whining a lot of getting sick of actually having to shovel it. So I got I found this attachment for my tractor and I’m like, yeah, I’m glad I got the attachment because it makes that whole job pretty like you know, a lot if not faster. Yeah. So anyways, what’s going on with Verge, some of the other projects you’ve been working on what’s new?

You know, it’s just same old you know, phone call after phone call after phone call. It’s a lot of work man, I’m not gonna lie to you, it’s a lot of work to, to you know, I’ve got a full time business to take care of as well and and with these other projects I’m involved in it’s it’s a lot of work for sure. But you know, we’re doing it for the right reasons right so I gotta fill the holes Well, you know, this is one of those things that people don’t seem to understand that even decentralized quote unquote community projects, they have a lot of work that needs to be done. And and to me, I still liken them to businesses. You know, even though there’s not the same command and control structures and and you know, legal entities and things like that. You still have to think of them and at least I do is like a business you have to grow it You still have to do the the phone calls you have to do the relationship building the business development and the sales. This is the one part a lot of projects don’t do as the sales part. But you know those things, all those jobs still have to be done. You know, if you’re going to be trying to get people to use your service, your project, if it’s a service, or your crypto as a payment method, you still need to get out there. You still need to do all that work. And it is work and, and and it’s harder as a decentralized project. It’s harder as a community project because you don’t have the ability to just go tell someone to go do something.

Yeah. No, I totally agree. And we talked in the core team about that quite often, you know, I, you know, how I look at it is where we’re still an $80 million project. So whether people say we’re decentralized, we’re not a business. We’re not a business. Listen, we have the same attributes as a business would have for eight an $80 million evaluation or whatever you want to call it market cap at million dollar market cap or 90 million or whatever it is, we still have to operate in the same way an $80 million business would have to operate. We still have those same, you know, the same attributes, people are still going to call on us the same way. The only difference is we don’t throw money at stuff, we can’t just go out there and pay thousands of dollars to market in a magazine. You know, and and of course, we’re colorful, our core team is colorful so we’re all again, like you said, with decentralized we have everybody’s opinions involved, right? So everyone’s gonna have a different opinion. So you know, it’s been decentralized and volunteer we just kind of do our own thing.

Rob McNealy
You know, and and management by committee can be difficult as well. And I think we’ve we’ve struggled with that with just getting our product to where it is today. Yeah, but we’re going to be going to main net very, very soon, hopefully next week. From the time of this recording, we’re really darn close, but holidays, you know, slowed us down a bit. But I definitely, you know, see that, you know, management by, you know, kind of management where you have to get everybody’s buy in, or at least you have to get the majority of the communities buy in for the big decision making. That’s harder, because it’s a lot more persuasion. It’s a lot more politics and, and I think that changes the dynamic, especially for someone who has a background as being an entrepreneur, where you’re just like, this is my baby, we will do it this way. And so that’s, we’re going we’re about to make that leap now. Because once we bring the block producers in and go to mean net, now, the way decisions are made is going to be a lot different. And it’ll be interesting to see how the rest of the team copes with that. Because the process is going to in a lot of ways get less efficient, which is good is because you don’t always want everything to be inefficient, or to be super too efficient either. But it’ll be interesting to see how it plays out.

Mark Wittenberg
So how many how many on your team total?

Rob McNealy
You know, I guess that depends on how you defined “on the team”. If you look at all the contributors that have been here till now you’ve probably about 18 to 20. Regular core contributors half dozen. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s quite a bit to manage for sure. Yeah. And, and so, and I think that’s the problem is that, because we’re all volunteers, we all have day jobs, we all have family commitments, things of that nature. You, you know, you don’t always get the performance that you would want, you know, so, you know, sometimes people can dive in and they can jump in for, you know, a week or two solid and just because they had a vacation or something like that. And then you know, hear from two months because they got busy with other things in life. And, and, and I don’t begrudge anybody that right I mean, that’s just part of part and parcel. But I find because of that, you know, we always have to kind of be in like, we’re recruiting mode, because people come in people fall out people get bored people, you know, lose interest, people lose, you know, have other commitments come up. And I think that’s with kind of with the decentralized project, it’s a little different than if you’re a company. Because if you’re a company, you’re like, Oh, well, these people can work 40 hours a week, and if they don’t work out, we fire them in a month or two, but you still get that, you know, you get a lot more production out of employees than you do out of volunteers. Yeah. And and so to me, it’s just we have to kind of always keep our eye open for someone else to come to the project, just because we know people will fall out and this is one thing I’ve noticed as well is that people are not patient. Right? And and I think what ends up happening a lot of people say they get excited about the idea of working on a new project or you know, bringing a new, you know, crypto or a new thing into the universe. And then they don’t realize that oh, this is actually going to take a year two or three years to really get attraction we want. And and I think people get bored, to be honest, because there’s just a lot of there’s a lot of boring work involved with this. And I think, you know, as far as I can see in the my own self is that there are times when you’re like, why am I doing this? You know, is it ever going to work with it? And then you know, you do that self doubt thing sometimes, like, Oh, is this really worth it? Are we going to get mass adoption? Or are we gonna actually get a launch? You know, things like that. And, you know, we’ll be we’re almost two years old will be two years old in a month. And I tell the guys it’s going to be too and this is what I’ve been telling them for six months is expect that it’s going to take two years after main net to really get traction. I think that’s a realistic expectation. If we don’t manage to get somewhere two years after launch, we’re not going to and when you and I tried to be as realistic and set really good solid expectations. But I think some of the guys that’s that’s hard, you know, they’re like, Well, can we just moon overnight and you know, You know, that’s not gonna work.

Mark Wittenberg
No. Yeah, I do you’ve nailed it man. It’s like I I’m, I’m self admitted one of the I don’t have any patience that’s when I try to get stuff done I I try to move through it fairly quick but you’ve nailed it stuff takes time. Like you know, I look back and with our project when we partnered with mine geek I think it was April of 2018 or something that we partner with mine geek and man, people just ride us on that it’s like these are these partnerships take time to bloom, like you can’t communicate with these guys every single day of their lives. You know, they’re busy, they’re doing their company stuff. They’re they’re trying to scale out or bring on more people, whatever they’re trying to do this. This takes a lot of time. This is and i think i it just shows how immature crypto is right now. When I say mature I don’t mean that as a personality I mean immature as in small, like we’re an immature space. And you know, you don’t see these larger corporations going out there and making these partnerships announcements and saying, hey, by the way, in five months, we’re going to be partnered with this company in five months, we’re doing this. They talk about it behind the scenes, and when it happens, that happens, and that’s when they announce it. So, man, I’m with you. It’s like for your project at two years after main net, it’s like, maybe it might be a little bit longer than that. Who knows how fast crypto grows, but it takes a lot of patience, man, I don’t have patience, but I’m certainly learning it.

Rob McNealy
I’m really impatient too. And that’s really interesting. Cuz my wife Kristie, who is one of our co founders, and she does a lot of the behind the scenes stuff. And she’s like, I can’t believe we’re still involved with this. I go with me. She’s like, you never stick around. And one thing that long effort, and I said I’m actually really excited about this still and to me that that actually has been surprising to me. But I think it’s because I keep you know, I, I’ve really tried to set my own mind to be patient on this. And I keep finding, you know, I think of it like this, we’re building something really, really massive, we’re building the Titanic in my mind. And if you’re going to build a titanic, you can’t expect the Titanic to launch overnight if it takes only 15 I mean, think of it this way, if it only took 15 minutes to build a crypto and put all the pieces together and and do all that stuff, then everybody would do it. Right. And you know, it’s not that easy to do. And there’s there’s a lot of barriers to entry. I think this is why you look at that there’s, you know, thousands and thousands of tokens and coins out there, right but you really don’t see much traction in a lot of them. And and I think part of it is absolutely that people either you know don’t know how to run it or people just get bored in and they fall away from it and they stop trying to grow it and I do believe like what you’re saying about, you know, these partnerships take time, I have a lot of really, really major potential partnerships that we have in the works for us, but I don’t talk about them, because they’re early yet. They’re really, really early, but I’ve already planted those seeds. And I know those some of those seeds will sprout. But what’s going to take is we now as a project have to prove ourselves worthy of those partnerships. Yeah. And I think, especially in this lot of people on our stand with, you know, with partnerships, right, they’re taking a risk on you. And so they want to see that you’re going to do what you say we’re going to do. So, you know, what I’ve done along the way, is, you know, I’ve been talking and building relationships for a year, year and a half with some of these players that I know would be a really good fit. We it’d be a really good mutual partnership. But we need to prove ourselves and and how we do that is we do and actually do what we say we’re going to do and I think, what I’ve seen out there in business and even with crypto is that most people are full of shit. Yeah. And successful people know that most people are full of shit. Lots of people talk. Lots of people spend spin their wheels, most people don’t end up producing. And I’m not trying to bag on people. It’s just a fact most people talk shit, they like the idea of something. But executing is really rare. And making things happen is rare. And so I’ve planted the seeds, and I keep those seeds kind of growing and germinating and keeping those potential partnerships up to date. But we need to prove ourselves and I think part of that will be getting through and main net and then you know, seeing how our marketing starts working and seeing how we start growing. And I think once we start growing, and we can prove to those other partnership people that we’ve been talking to that we are viable, and we are a legit, you know, potential partner for them. I think we’re going to massively accelerate just with any of them. If any other them land. It’ll be huge for us. But we have to prove ourselves. And I think that’ll take another six to nine months after me net just to get really to start showing people what we can do as far as the marketing, the business networking and things that we’re doing. It’s going to take time, but it’s going to happen, but I don’t hype, and I don’t make announcements of announcements, and I don’t sit there and try to, you know, hype. Oh, I talked to so and so, you know, it might be a great partnership, but it’s gonna it’s a two year out partnership. It’s not going to land for two years, because we need to be at a certain size before that will happen. But we’re, we’re laying all that foundation out. And I think that’s the critical piece.

Mark Wittenberg
Yeah, you nailed it, man. It’s partnerships are like, it’s like a marriage, man. Every marriage goes through a honeymoon stage too. But for me, you know, you know, I can be talking to 10 or 15 different people right now on potentially collaborating with us or partnering with us. That just means that i’ve reached out to them. And I’m, I’ve opened up a dialogue with them have opened up a conversation, you got to move through certain phases. And once you become a partner, I’m a big fan of managing those relationships. So if I create a partnership myself for the team, it’s important to me to manage those relationships, you know, every week or every two weeks or every three days, just say hi to them stuff like that and see how they’re doing and see what the next goals are. For them, see how we can assist them in their next phase. It’s not just take a partnership, and oh, yeah, we’re a partner now. And now we’re done and we move on to the next partner. It takes a lot of time and effort to not just put the partnership together but to manage that partnership once it is a partnership like I can’t it you know, people like man, I can’t stand announcements of announcements that it that’s one thing, it’s just like, I had, I ran this I ran into so and so at Starbucks and we shook a hand and now we’re going to partner Sunday. That’s like, yeah, it’s like you run into a million people in your life diamonds and people, man people are like Twitter’s crazy, you know, everybody’s like when this when that and, like, I’m not gonna talk about the, I’m not going to talk about the companies I’m talking to now because it’s, it’s, it’s irrelevant to any kind of conversation until we can shake a hand do a deal and, and make sure it’s going to fit for them and for us, and to be quite honest with you fit for them maybe not fit for us because right now in crypto, you know, I look at it like a side besides so right now in crypto, we’re, we’re the B side, you know, when we’re doing a partnership or looking at a collaboration, somebody, we’re going to be the B side, there’s options out there. We just have to make sure it’s the right fit for that partner and see how see if it’s gonna fit for that partner. So, man, it takes a lot of time to partner build and again, like I said, I can be talking to 10 or 15 different companies right now. And I probably am talking to 10 or 15 different companies right now. But it takes time to work stuff through. You can’t just these guys can’t just integrate something in two days, it doesn’t. Two days, two days, it takes time. And like you said, it takes a lot of time.

Rob McNealy
Well, it was interesting. I know, last April, I talked to very large point of sale company in this in the gun world. And it was kind of interesting, because they seemed interested in first and then they kind of goes to me, and that makes sense, because, you know, that’s, you know, going eight months back and we were a lot further behind where we are now, of course, in our development cycle, but I wanted to open the dialogue with them, because I know that they would be a great partner in the future. But I also know for them to take a risk on us. Remember corporations are really risk adverse Way, way more risk averse than say a startup company would be. That’s why startups are much more nimble, typically, and a lot more groundbreaking and disruptive because they can be, they have nothing to lose. But bigger companies have a lot more to lose. And so they want to be very careful they partner with and, you know, some of the teen, I didn’t even make this public, right. This is just, you know, this was an early guys these strategically thinking, one of the things that I know is I want to partner with, in a general sense strategically with our project, partnering with point of sale, people that already have customers in the space that we’re going into, and there’s about a half dozen of them in the in the US gun world. So, you know, I said I want to start opening the dialogue to introduce myself and put us on their horizon. But I don’t think we’re at but back then. And probably even now for another six months to a year out. We’re not going to be ready for them. We’re not going to be ready. And some of the teams like well, so if you’ve been following up with that guy, I’m like, well, it kind of goes to me a little bit. And they’re like, Are you worried about that? I go now, I think Because I go if I were him right now and it was a C level executive at this company, I would be trying to figure out how I launched my own cryptocurrency Yeah. And and because they the in the gun space is really there’s just there it’s not, they’re not that cutting edge in a lot of respect it’s actually a very low tech industry right now. And I said what will happen is they’re going to go start figuring it out and since they’re big company, their learning curve is going to be slow. It’ll take them six months to figure out that legally speaking, it doesn’t make sense for them to try to do it. And you know, and because I already know what it takes legally to, you know, be drop a current cryptocurrency and I’ll tell and I’ll say this another way for cryptocurrency to be successful, it’s kind of got to be neutral. You know, if you think about it, I think if you want to be adopted by an industry, right, you know, it’s not going to be as easy to adopt by an industry if one of the dogs in that show is running, for instance, if your competitor is running the crypto, you probably aren’t going to be as likely to want to use that crypto because it’s helping your competitor. But what could make sense as a like an independent project, like what we’re doing, like a community project makes a lot more sense, because we’re not, we’re not a competitor, we can work with all those guys. But I said, Look, if I was that, that CEO of that company, I would be trying to figure out how to launch my own cryptocurrency right now. And I’m going to go down that track before I start, you know, engaging with outside projects. And I know that’s what they’re doing. And they’re also going to find that it doesn’t make sense for them to try to launch their own cryptocurrency because the legalities of it and the fact this is not going to work as well. You’re not going to get the adoption that you would want. You might have an internal project but it’s going to be hard to get other products or other people in the industry outside of that. And it’s funny because one of these one of these companies, you know, I’ve been looking at, they’re really not like very well by a lot of people in the industry either so that works against them. So working with a project like us makes a lot more sense. But that’s going to take another six months or nine months or a year after we launched to not only do in show people that we will say we’re going to do X, and then we’re going to execute on x. And it takes that time. And and I think these are those things that a lot of people, especially developer types, or people that are not entrepreneurs even right there’s a lot of a lot of people that hold crypto are not entrepreneurs, so they don’t understand all these, you know, the ideas that you have to do things in a progression, you have to go through baby steps you have to grow. And it’s just like getting on exchanges to write. You know, you have to start on crappy or smaller exchanges. That’s just the nature of the beast, you have to work your way up. It makes no sense to pay, you know, 50,000 bucks or 100,000 bucks to try to get you know, a listing for you to get on a bigger exchange when your project isn’t big enough to really drive any kind of new volume on that bigger exchange, they’ll just the list you. And you know, there’s been you just wasted a lot of money and time and effort. You know, you’ve got to work your way up and grow. And and that takes patience. And a lot of people don’t have that patience, I think. Yeah, I agree.

Mark Wittenberg
Yeah. It’s, like you said, good point with the exchanges, because we often get that from our community to you know, like, we’re, I mean, obviously, I’m part of a couple of projects, but from the verge aspect, I mean, we’re listed on 5060 exchanges already. So, but I get the, you know, when the USD t pairing or when the USD pairing or when’s Coinbase going to add this and when’s binance gonna add more pairings? Listen, at the end of the day, we don’t control that. That’s not we can harass these exchanges like Coinbase or binance. Or Cz, we can harass him on Twitter, all we want is that gonna is that going to get us the end result? Definitely not, the more who you are as a person, the more they’re going to get pushed away. It’s consistency. So the way I look at it is we just do what we’re doing, do it consistently. And try to do the right thing. If they want to add more pairings for us, that’s going to be their business decision. Because let’s face it, they’re a business. So that’s going to be their business decision. If they if they love our community and love our large community and want our large community to help them in some stuff to put some stuff out in the future and stand by them. Then they’re going to do that if they if they don’t see the value in giving us more parents. Hey, that’s up to them. We’re not we can’t control other people’s decisions. We can want what we can want what we want, but they’re going to do what they want to do. And you know, and and I just tell you know, my advice to people is just be as kind as possible and you know, if you want to be a partner with another exchange or have another exchange add you just support them and be consistent in how you’re how you’re addressing them online and how you’re talking to them and have respect for them. You know, people like Cz that guy, I think I tweeted about it tweeted about it the other day about, you know, where guys like cc came from Vancouver worked and I think he worked in fast food or whatever, in Vancouver, BC and then went off to university I think in Ontario or something. He’s got roots too. He’s got a past and he’s going to remember his roots as well. You know, we can hammer people can hammer him all they want to hammer him but at the end of the day, you still need to give respect to somebody like him for building what he’s built. Hammer him all you want, but 99% of us probably would not be here without binance or without Coinbase is probably pretty close to the fact

Rob McNealy
Well, I would say this when it comes to exchanges, and, you know, as far as you know, our long term goal, of course, yeah, you who doesn’t want to be on binance, who doesn’t want to be on the big exchanges, right? But it also needs to make sense, you know, for them. And to me, if you have to, like bother people and bug people and harass people to get your project listed, to me, maybe there’s something lacking in your project, or it’s not big enough. And, you know, at some point, I do believe that the whole exchange world and the way projects are evaluated by the general public and exchanges will change. Right now. It really is about who can pay the listing fees for a lot of these exchanges. They don’t care about your project. They just because their business models are they want listing fees. And, and to me, I think eventually, I think that a lot of the BS in crypto and all the fake volumes and all the crappy projects and the failed Ico is, I think

The markets going to change. And I think the way projects are evaluated will change. And I think how they’re likely going to change is that projects that have real adoption and people and real customers, and have real communities and are really growing, those are the projects that are quality, and all the exchanges are eventually going to want them. And so I tell everybody, even in our community, when they come up with these when moon kind of concepts and you know, you know, and all these comments that we get all the time is like, Look, we don’t need to worry about price. We don’t need to worry about exchanges. We need to focus on building quality, we need to focus on getting users and retailers. And if we do those things and do it correctly, we will not have a problem getting on any exchange that we want to in time. Yeah, yeah, totally agree.

Mark Wittenberg
I totally agree. I you know, I I don’t I’m not out there telling people to go buy verge and invest in Verge. That’s not that’s not what I do. I’m not focused on I’m not focused on telling people to invest in Verge as a as a as a currency, we’re just we should just concentrate on building what we want our use case in our mission to be just constantly do that. And I look kind of look at it like a McDonald’s kind of a thing. McDonald’s started out as a milkshake company now look where they grew to. They didn’t grow to a McDonald’s. Hamburger joint overnight. When they started with milkshakes, it takes a lot of time, but they focused on what they wanted to do. That’s, that’s what they focused on as a currency, and it’s going to be interesting to see what happens in 2020. But if as as us like, even with my other projects, Excel trip patient, if we just focus and concentrate on on what we need to do. People are going to it’s going to open up people’s eyes and they’re going to eventually see it and we’re going to eventually grow. When I say grow, we’re going to grow to two more use case and maybe evaluation will grow too. I’m not I’m not too concerned about these people that want to see 10 cents or 20 cents or five bucks or 10 bucks tomorrow, it’s like, just just concentrate it to hammer exchanges on Twitter and say, when are we going to get this or it’s about time this project gets virge gets USD parent, it takes just as much energy to help up the decentralized project as a volunteer than it would to go on Twitter and ask that question. What’s the point of engaging in a in an antagonistic conversation when you can just turn it to the good and focus on the project instead, but that’s kind of the way I look at it when I’m on Twitter I try to be I try to be on point with my tweets and I try to I try to give respect respect as Do you know, and for us and cryptocurrency we owe everybody else respect at this point.

Rob McNealy
I agree. So, in 2020 what do you see happening in crypto in the new year? Ah, what do I see happening? Or what would I like to happen? That’s a good question. Um, why not both?

Mark Wittenberg
Oh, boy, what would I like to happen? I would like a whole lot of consolidation to happen. Personally, I would like I am the farthest thing away from a money grabber. And I would absolutely love to see that these money grab projects just go away. Just be vaporware go away. And, you know, I feel for the people that again, maybe invested in them, but again, that’s not my problem. But I would like to see it consolidate in a harsh way. And I’d like to see it get really real, what do I think is going to happen? I think we’re still five years old from anywhere from being anywhere serious, but I think at the end of 2020, we’re going to see a major shift I think I think it’s going to consolidate heavily in 2020. And I think it’s where we’ve turned a big corner where it’s going to be use case focused. And I think 2020 we’re going to see, we’re going to see some real use case projects get pushed up for sure.

Rob McNealy
One thing though, where the rubber meets the road is use cases and I always hate customers. Now a lot of people you like to use the word user. I like to think of people as customers, because I think that changes the focus a little bit. To me, you know, a user means that you can be an investor. Well, an investor is not someone who necessarily is going to grow your project and a lot of times it’s the opposite because if you’re into me since we’re also a pure payments, crypto, we want people to spend to us we want people to accept us as money. Right? That’s our focus. And to me, I still think payments is the killer app. And and regardless of the people in Bitcoin, or what have you that are pushed, have moved to this store of value nonsense narrative. And, and to me, I think the Bitcoin community and I’m not bagging on them, but you know, and I own Bitcoin, right? I’m a supporter. But I think that a lot of people in the Bitcoin community moved from peer to peer digital cash to store value because Bitcoin failed at being a peer to peer cash project. And now, people I’ll be, I’ll probably be getting hate emails for this, and that’s fine. But the reality is they they moved the marketing message, they changed the narrative away from the Satoshi white paper. And I’m not going to get into the conflicts with all the different Bitcoin communities now and the splintering and the other projects that came out of the forks and all that, but I agree with you, I think the killer app, it’s about users, it’s about people using your, you know, project. So if people are holding, you know, task or verge or you know, digibytes, or any of these other kind of payment projects. To me that’s counter growing the project, because you want people to spend it, right? And if you incentivize or encourage people to view it as an investment rather than currency, to me, I actually think you’re hindering the growth of your project at that point. You know, just like staking wards. I think if you’re a payments project, and you do staking rewards, you’re you’re like nailing your own self to the cross. It doesn’t make any sense to me. Because these people, if you’re getting interest, you know, on your project, why would you spend it, you’re totally incentivizing the wrong behavior when you do that. And people have asked us, are you going to have staking rewards? And I go, absolutely not. Why would I want that? You know, it sounds great. If you don’t believe in the project, you know, if you don’t believe in the mission in the application in the use case. Yes, thank you more. It sounds great. You know, and I hold a lot of task, you know, but you know, so I would benefit from staking rewards, but it’s going to hinder the growth of our project and to I do believe

That in 2020, we too will see a change moving toward actually use cases of customers, not just users. I don’t believe in I don’t think of investors as users or customers. And a lot of people conflate that they’re like, look how many people are using Bitcoin ago. They’re not using, they invested in it, they’re hotaling Bitcoin, they’re not spending it. And to me, that’s not what you want. You want people to use it, and use it commercially. And, and just think of it as another payment method. That’s what the ideal should be, at least according to the Satoshi white paper, but they’ve moved from that they’re not even trying. The thing is they’re not even trying anymore. So I believe that there’s a vacuum there. And I think projects like you know, verge and task and digibytes that are community driven, that are focused on the mission and the application are the ones that will be successful and I do believe there will be a consolidation now the question is when Will the Emperor not have recognized he’s not wearing any clothes? With so many of these projects? Right? I can, I can tell you I know of at least a couple dozen projects that are in the top two or 300. And I know there’s a lot more, but I know for a fact like, you know, 3040 of these projects are either completely dead or complete scams, but they’re still traded and listed in the top hundred, you know, our top 200 or top 300. And yeah, I’d love to see those go away. Why are you tracking a project that, you know, literally traded at, you know, $21 at its peak, is now trading for eight cents. The people that ran the project are in being indicted for fraud, but yet you’re still trading and it still has a $6 million market cap. Why are you even tracking that? Why are exchanges still involved with that? Yeah, I’d like to see that garbage flush out of the system personally because you know, it’s it does take away attention. From projects that are viable and are legitimate and are growing, yeah, totally agree. I mean, and I’m not bias either way, whether it’s, again, whether it’s verge or Excel trip or pay center, you know, whether whether these projects are involved in that consolidation and they go away then so be it, but I can’t, all we can do is try to work as hard as possible focus as much as possible to try to gain acceptance for sure.

Mark Wittenberg
But I’m with you out of the top 100 or top 200 there’s got to be 30 or 40 that are just going to be gone. And I and I agree with that. 100% I agree with that. But again, these volunteer decentralized projects that are non Ico or whatever, they’re they literally can’t go away. There’s, there’s gonna be a turnstile, right like it’s it’s there’s going to be volunteers on Always coming in and volunteers always going out volunteers coming in and volunteers. We literally, we literally can’t go away. Can we flatline? Absolutely Can you flatline for two, three years, four years, five years, six years, whatever. Absolutely. But you literally won’t go away. Right? Yeah, I think it just comes down to how much inertia you have. And I think what will end up happening is a lot of these non Ico parents are a lot of them what’s happening with these Ico projects, is that you know, a lot of these projects will run Victor would never even run a business before and then they got literally stupid raises through their Ico which a lot of market which which in the United States and pretty much every Ico was illegal. Yeah.

Rob McNealy
And so what ended up happening is, I saw on some projects where they literally hired 100 150 people with their Ico money with no revenue insight, and you’re like, what are they doing with 100 and 150 developers

I mean, that’s insane to me that the so they created all this amazing like overhead, you know, let’s look at in the business, right? They just like went nuts. Yeah and then when the market tanked they didn’t cash out the Ico money and their theory and Bitcoin that they received, you know, drop down 90% from this Ico high. And so they basically just went and burn through all the money. And so a lot of these projects, they’re just they burn through, they fizzled out there, they ran out of money. And I think, you know, projects like task where we have no overhead, we have no debt, we have no full time employees, what many employees and so we don’t, we’re not chasing a burn rate. And I think virgin a lot of these other like digibytes stuff there. We’re not chasing burn rates. We’re not running from going out of business and running out of cash. It’s not even part of the thing. We’re self funded through the network or networks of you know, pays for itself. So it’s sustainable. And I think that That’s part of the problem is that and you can go look at a lot of those socially, the Ico tokens, which are some of the worst. Go look at their socials go to the top two or 300. And I do this every couple of weeks, I’ll go through and just pick a couple projects. And I’ll go look at their websites. I’ll go look at when they last updated. I’ll look at their socials and I haven’t updated in eight months. If you haven’t updated your socials in eight months, you’re probably dead. Right? Yeah. And to me, you know, there’s, I think coin market cap or maybe the exchanges or something, there needs to be something done about that, in my mind, that there’s no development on the project, they probably maybe they didn’t have they didn’t produce what they said they would produce and their tokens were just a method of raising money. And so if there’s not going to be, you know, a project built off that, you know, token Why are they still trading the tokens? And I understand that people lost money. You know, there was a lot of bad male investments in people fell for it. And that’s why the SEC was created in the first place in 1933. And 1934. You know, but you know, I think, yeah, I think there’s going to be some consolidation. There’s gotta be, you know, these products are crap, I think the problem is, is that the exchanges don’t want to let it go. Because these exchanges, you know, most of their fake volume is on these crap projects that, you know, they’re just churning and burning token tokens to pump up their volumes themselves. And if they had to de list all the dead projects, they wouldn’t really have much left.

Yeah, good point. Absolutely. Fair point. For sure. Yeah. And that’s one of the things that it’s frustrating as a project is that I would rather I would rather as a project be listed on more Western exchanges that have third party validated, you know, honest books and honest volume, because I don’t want to be associated with these, you know, Asian exchanges that have fake volume and that are doing dodgy stuff and they’re ethically challenged. But we’re also stuck as a project is that to get on, you know, like the American exchanges are like some of the top but they’re also the pickiest, right. They don’t they too don’t want to take a risk on and brand new projects. So we’re kind of stuck in this catch 22 that you have to kind of deal with some of the crappier exchanges to get some volume to prove yourself worthy enough to be on the more legitimate exchanges. And I don’t like that at all. I wish we don’t have to go through that process. But that’s kind of the way the process is in crypto and, and, you know, people that are not working in a project, they don’t understand all the nonsense we have to kind of deal with. And, you know, it’s a there’s a high risk for as a project of getting ripped off by the exchanges that, you know, have crazy listing fees, but then want, you know, 2% of your supply. Yeah, you know, and then they don’t bring anything to the table themselves. yet. They’re a highly ranked exchange and you have to Be on a highly ranked exchange to get to the next level exchange or and in, you know, that growth process. I know it’s nuts to me, it’s just I wish that we could just be I would rather just be on two or three, you know, really legitimate and well respected exchanges and not worry about it. But that’s just not so easy to do.

Mark Wittenberg
Yeah, I mean, even the western exchanges for older projects are not as easy either. It’s, you know, we’re for verge we’re, what are we five years old, we’re five year old project, and there’s some exchanges in the western Western exchanges that we’re still not on or we don’t have USD parings and, again, so be it. I can’t I don’t control their model, their model is their model, and that’s in there that’s in their brain what they want to do.

Rob McNealy
So it’s, it’ll have to change. Eventually, they’re gonna have to do list, you know, legal securities, if they want to deal with Americans, because the US government’s going to force that. So I think that’s going to I think that’s going to be a big driver. Yeah. In 2020 of that. consolidation is that if you’re, you know, if you want access to American markets in American customers, you’re going to have to D list privacy coins, and you’re going to have to D list any of these illegal securities and and I think that’ll be a good thing to be honest. And that now opens the door for more legitimate projects like ours, where we’re not in the legal security. We’re not an Ico project, we don’t have that stain and stigma around us. So and I think Same thing with verge I think there will be openings for us and legitimately well run projects in 2020. So I’m excited about that. One of the things that gets me excited and motivated doing the little happy gopher dance.

Mark Wittenberg
Yeah, me too. And we get into the privacy coins getting delisted and people you know, it’s a question that’s come up with us to you know, because we’re, you know, we’re looked at as a privacy coin, but we’re privacy by choice. So we’re not, we’re not full on privacy. So that’s kind of, we’re sitting in a nice kind of an area you know, because we’rePrivacy by choice and we are definitely not a security so you know it’s it’s always nice talking to you rob because it’s like maybe some of these projects are going to listen to us or look at us and and see through and go you know what these guys are serious. This Rob guy, this Mark guy these projects that these guys are involved in. They’re serious people we’re not just some fly by night guys that are going to pop up and go away tomorrow kind of a thing. And we need more of this. You know, we need some of these bigger projects, these bigger exchanges to kind of look through and go does that guy sound genuine? Is he genuine? Does he does he well spoken does he come off? Well, is he in business? Yeah, I kind of want to do business with that guy. You know, do business with the people that that are genuine and do business with the people that are that are going to help you don’t do business with just pure money. Some of these exchanges they have they have a lot of money already. Data I don’t think I don’t know.

Yeah, with the securities thing I think you’re right in 2020 we’re going with the securities coming down we’re going to see a lot of these projects just go away. It’s unfortunate but it has to happen. Agreed. So besides you know virgin we talked a lot about verge last time you’re on tell me a little bit about patient and excel trip and some of these other projects you’re working on. So Excel trip. I mean, I just said as an advisor, so I’m not I’m involved. I’m very, I’m a big fan of communication. So I like to communicate to my to the CEOs and the CEOs and the CEOs and the CM whatever OHS and as much as I can, but so Excel trip is it’s a decentralized travel platform, right? So I think you can book over a million hotels 400 Airlines with it now so you can pay in crypto. So, for me, it’s that’s going to be an important project moving forward. It’s going to have it certainly has it’s certainly a spot in crypto for sure. When companies like sell trip, tie into some of these other bigger companies and pull their information, and you can use their platform to pay in crypto, maybe you’re going to Expedia or Priceline or whatever. But if they’re taking those that information on those hotels and flights, putting it into their platform, and you can pay in crypto and get a reward or cash back or whatever you’re going to do to travel. I honestly don’t know why more crypto conventions and more crypto traveling. People don’t use don’t use Excel trip. It’s busy. It’s a busy website. They’re they’re really busy business at hob, the CEO and founder back guy travels like non stop I can’t even like every time I talked to the guys in a different spot. Like I should just put out a map and just pin where he’s going. It’s crazy how much that guy travels but I mean It’s a busy website, but it websites like that are going to get busier and busier and busier. And I really think that these conventions and these conferences and these meetups and stuff like that they really need to take advantage of websites like Excel trip where you can book and get cash back. I mean, man, there you book and pay with crypto and you’re getting some cash back and crypto. So and they’re not gouging, they’re not like some of these other travel platforms that raise the price 20% to say you’re saving 20% It’s not like that. It’s the real deal. It’s very competitive pricing, pay sent. On the other hand, of course, their pay Center is a bridge between Fiat and kryptos. So they’ve got debit cards, and as far as I know, right now, they’re the only worldwide debit card solution, bridging between Fiat and crypto. So you put your crypto on your on your app and then you move it over to your debit card into what they call sipps si p s which is equivalent to one USD and then you just go spend your debit card. They’re the only worldwide solution right now, as far as I know, in the space they they only allow us to. Absolutely, yeah 100% they have over 100,000 cards delivered. That’s huge 100,000 cards. That’s that’s a pretty big market share. It’s a well ran car. It’s a well run company. It is absolutely. A well run company. I whatever people are going to say about this debit card, that debit card, maybe I’m biased because I’m an advisor for them. Maybe. But I’m really not like that as a person. I’m not stepping in as an advisor role to a company that I think is vaporware. That’s not who I am as a person. If I’m going to back something 100% with my name, my name means a lot to me. So I’m going to make sure the company’s legit and I communicate with these guys every day. So I’m following them and

Man, these guys are legit companies Paycent and Xceltrip are straight up legit companies. I mean, straight like no Hab for Xceltrip. He was an early adopter. So you go to his go to his facebook i think that guy’s got like 300,000 followers or something like that the guy was involved in early and a lot of projects. So these guy and patient, Sumida, they know how to build and scale companies and they know exactly what to focus on and know exactly what they need to do so totally legit. Well, to me, those were use cases and that’s, you know, getting now getting crypto and getting on ramps and off ramps in and people using crypto for spending that to me again, you know, it goes back to what’s the killer app. And those are the types of things that you know, we need to see out there and you know, maybe you can connect me with them. I’d love to talk and learn more about those individual projects as well.

Rob McNealy
But we’re getting to the point where we’re almost out of time. So Mark, where can people find out about all the things you’re working on?

Mark Wittenberg
A,, and But pay sense got an app Xceltrip. Yeah Xceltrip calm and you can find me on Twitter at Verge Canada. And yeah, let’s, let’s have some fun out there.

Rob McNealy
Absolutely. Once again, I really enjoyed our conversation and if you haven’t already, folks, make sure you you know, hit that subscribe button on iTunes or follow us on, you know, Twitter Rob McNealy or go to you know, YouTube, we’re everywhere. Thank you so much, and we’ll catch you later.

Mark Wittenberg
Thanks, Rob.

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Jared Tate – Digibyte Transcript

Jared Tate, Founder of DigiByte Coin


Rob McNealy
Now welcome to the program today. I am really excited because I get to talk to one of my personal heroes. He is probably one of the most outspoken and prominent people and fixtures in the Bitcoin crypto world, and that’s heritage of digit by Clint jarred. How are you today, doing?

Jared Tate
Fantastic, thank you, thank you for the kind words.

Rob McNealy
And I actually mean it when I say those things so, so many people, especially with the influencers, in the space that just kind of blow smoke. But I actually really serious. You guys have been doing really cool stuff. Your project’s been around for a while now. So before we dive into some of the nitty-gritty I always like to get a little bit of background. Can you talk a little bit about who you are as a person? And then we’ve talked a little bit about what did you bytes all about?

Jared Tate
Yeah, so I’ve been in this space since I first discovered Bitcoin in 2012, before that, I was very lucky and fortunate. My mother was a computer scientist, so she taught me how to build a website and build a computer. By the time I was 10, and so I’ve always had a fascination with computers and computer science, so when I first discovered Bitcoin, in 2012, I was blown away, and I was running out telling everybody. Oh, this is the future, this is the future, this is amazing.

Jared Tate
And then of course, people were like, “Oh no, no, it’s upon these “don’t be burning made off stuff like that and I’m like… No, you really need to look into this. And after going through the core source code from 2012 through 2013, I had an idea, I’m like, “Hey I think I could make some improvements to the core protocol, and I think we could make it faster, and I think we could make it a little bit more efficient. And that’s how, digit started on January. 10-2014. I honestly had no idea. It would turn into what it is is I literally launched it from my garage in IDEO it was the middle of the winter so I was mining with gpus and that’s how I was testing the network ’cause there was no insulation in the garage, so he didn’t have to worry about cooling.

Jared Tate
And from there, we’ve just continued to innovate. And did your bite has become an amazing grassroots Blockchain community. And so my hats off to all the community members out there who are watching without them. None of this would be possible and I think that’s why we’re all here in the beginning is true. decentralization.

Rob McNealy
Well, that’s one of the things I like about your project is that your community is absolutely one of the most excited. And what I can see a legitimate communities out there, a lot of projects will talk about their community size. And I can tell you as a project myself, is that I personally believe a lot of the communities sizes around these projects are fake, not 100%, a lot of used to see it a lot more in 2017 before Twitter kinda crack down, but yeah, tons of bots and paid, paid promotion-based stuff like that. 100%.

He is just funny because we’ve been accused of being a paid bottom.

Well, just some people understand you wouldn’t believe. And how many people approach us with offering these services? We will add so many to come up with a whole sheet a whole pitch deck of how many Telegram users, they’ll give you how many Twitter followers they give you all for in prices of in a bit clan and whatever else you and I tell people We found really, as well with our project that a lot of the people that have come into Crypto and a lot of these bound “h0n0 type people on a lot of these people that have these uncle big followings around their projects, just they’re not, they’re not real. It’s all made up.

But then I…

Rob McNealy
I talked to verge. Recently, the verge crypto project and talked to you. And I can see with these communities that there’s real responses real people asking real questions not, just paid for bots. And I do believe that it matters but I think it’s gonna become a lot more important over the next couple of years is I believe crypto is gonna have to change and grow is that all this nonsense and all the fake volume and all the fake communities and stuff that’s gotta wash away if mass adoption, is gonna happen, you know, 100% and as you’re sitting there talking,

Jared Tate
I get those same offers almost on a daily basis, and in fact I have a whole inbox. I should publish some of them, just so people see how ridiculous this space actually kinda is, whether it’s paid social media promotion, paid followers, or even worse. I get offers, probably, at least every two or three days from people saying that they’ll increase volume they’ll make it look like a lot of them are coming from exchanges overseas, but I think a lot of people just aren’t aware of how much hype and just marketing and a fake stuff that’s out there. And it’s really dramatically changed since 2017, you had this whole wave of people that came in, in 2017, and they were drawn to this marketing hype in these projects that they don’t really understand a lot of times are completely centralized and controlled by their maybe just a single person or a handful of people.

Rob McNealy
The volume thing is really interesting too especially and it seems to be, and I’m not calling it out to be mean, but a lot of these Asian exchanges, the smaller Asian exchanges they’ll say, “Look at how big or exchanges you should come on and pay us 510 BTC to come on to their platform, and we’re like, Okay, but a coin get go says your volumes all fake. Well, no, no, it’s not fake, but then they’ll say, “Oh by the way, if you come on our network and you don’t mean tan, minimum volume, you have to fake your own volume. So which is it? Are your users, real in your value real or are you literally just doing your own market making and was trading on these projects? And it bugs me ’cause I’m an honest guy. I would hate to have low volumes, but I’d rather have low volumes on trading on my project, and have fake trading ’cause I don’t want… ’cause that’s fraud, and I… Yeah, we inherently… Fraud is bad.

Jared Tate
Yeah, well, I’m not opposed to calling it out. It is predominantly Chinese, Asian-based, exchanges. I myself, I lived in China for four years, I’m well aware of the way that a lot of the Chinese operate their businesses, and the reality is, is we’re seeing this not just in crypto, but I mean, across the board, there’s a reason this trade war is unfolding, the way it is because they haven’t been playing fair anywhere. The reality is, they do have a different set of values over there and if for instance I created an exchange in 2014 never launched it and the reason we never launched it, is because we wanted to do it properly regulated manner.

And at the time, I actually talked with the guy who underwrote the bonds for paypal and he’s like, “Look man, you’re gonna spend 3 million trying to go and get money transmission licenses. And 47 out of the 50 states plus applying and doing all the Fed stuff.

So the burden of regulation is very overwhelming, in the United States, especially for a start-up and the reality is in Asia, they just don’t have those same rules. The play by… And so if I… Myself, had gone out and operated the same way. And in exchange, starting in 2014, that a lot of these agent exchange is that I would have been in jail years ago and it’s pretty crazy to… So you’ve been pretty outspoken about dealing with exchanges. Most notably, finance, which is this point at the time of this recording, is the biggest exchange in the world right now, at least purportedly what happened… What happened there with you guys and you’re listening with finance, you know it all goes back to 2017. before they even launched in the summer of 2017, we were presenting digit in our international trade and logistics solution called digs at this event called The City Tech for integrity challenge. And at the time, it was probably the most covered follow thing that was happening in crypto, ’cause it was…

I met and so we had a massive amount of attention and what ended up happening is, one day, I started seeing these Tweets about… And you exchange which, you know, it’s pretty common, you see that all the time, especially as long as we’ve been around I think we’ve got digit listed on probably 150 exchanges over the last six years and probably a good 50 of those. have come and gone and are no longer around, you know, it wasn’t abnormal for a new exchange to come in, but was that what was abnormal were the amount of likes and retweets and stuff this thing was going, it was obviously it was both, right?

Well, some of our community members had conversations back and forth, finance put out this tweet, saying, “Hey who we had next about digit at the time we won, and we’re like, cool. Well, next thing you know some of our people start talking to the finance people and they’re like, “Well you need to pay us. And this went back and forth for a few months, and finally were like, “Hey we’re a decentralized project. We didn’t do an ICO. It’s been true grass roots, we fight out don’t have the money to pay and the fact is they won’t even give us an amount. And I posted screen shots of all this in 2018. anybody can go back and look at it. Basically they’re like, “How much do you got?

It’s basically straight up extortion. And then they started spreading rumors about me and other people in the community. Basically, trying to strong arm us into doing a community raised to get a bunch of money, right?

I was just fundamentally opposed to that and it really upset me, and I was getting accused of… Well, first of all, I got accused of being a Chinese spy on WeChat, which made no sense.

I’m like, “I don’t even use WeChat, but anyway, then I started finding out that the scene stories were coming from other projects and other found I… Unfortunately, a lot of these other projects just basically, I guess, to come to it or they did an ICO and they had the money and they paid them, so it just because so many people went along with it, it just exacerbated the problem made it works.

And in my opinion, that behavior of this pay to pull a ICO friendly set this industry back years and then finally in the interest of moving forward. And I’m not a negative person, I like to think I’m a very optimistic positive person but when I continually see this behavior over and over again after we tried to bury the hatchet later this year, they actually approached us right before the finance us watch and I was told I didn’t even agree to take the phone call or the video call. I’m like, “Look if they’re gonna ask or demand for anything, I don’t wanna talk to them if they want a list. Did you buy… And they wanna support to the centralized projects. That’s great, anybody is free to list. I go buy it any time they want, but I get out on the phone call with them, and it wasn’t even 60 seconds into it they’re like, “Well we’ll issue for 300000. and I’m like, “What you gotta be kidding me.

First of all, we don’t even have 300000 for a marketing budget to pay anything we’ve never paid to be on an exchange. And then secondly, they ask us to give ’em 3% of all the Digby circulation.

It just blew me away. The fact that either they were that arrogant or the fact that they were… That naive of how it really decentralized, project works which I think it was the arrogant to be honest. And so, after that, I’m like, Look, the community needs to know this, and if you look at the stuff and the information that they have repeatedly done it’s like, Oh, they’re gonna have a deck. The essential IED exchange, it’s not decentralized.

Oh, they’re gonna take listing fees, and give them a charity. Yeah, a charity that they control.

It’s just shenanigans, after shenanigans, and I’m not, I wanna be clear here, when I talk about doing business in China I don’t think all Chinese people are bad. I have some great friends that are Chinese, I think they’re good people, but the business practices that are basically normal over there, so I think a normal Westerner they just quite don’t understand it but I can tell you after seeing some of the same behaviors in the manufacturing industry in other technology businesses over there outside of crypto it’s just, it’s the way business is done. It’s a very cut-throat doggy, dog fake until you make an environment.

Rob McNealy
Well, well, my experience has been the same way. And so, I don’t know if you know what we’re doing with us, but we started out as an ERC-20 token and we actually created our own blockchain, and we just did our swap.

So we are fully decentralized, and we never did an ICO so we didn’t have all this ICO money either.

And it’s interesting ’cause I started recently I’ve been talking to exchanges again, and I’m seeing the same nonsense. I had someone… Literally, their reported volume is a billion dollar it’s an Asian exchange and their actual normalized volumes about 3 million of their trade volume.

They asked me for 5 BTC for one pair and 20% of our entire supply. I said I don’t even have access to 2% of our supply.

And it’s like they have a hard time understanding that we don’t control that it was distributed in the community. Owns the coins not us, and I just said, and you point this out, you’re… And I really like coin Geo as far as a tracker. They’re trying to make some real good headway in how they’re displaying the sizes and the normalized volume and they compared to things like what traffic… And it’s funny ’cause I talked to the sales rep, I’m not gonna say which Exchange, but it’s a decent sized exchange. And I said, “Look your web traffic is about a third of what all the other exchanges are that have your stated volume or half or a tent there. It was ridiculous, it was like “Oh they’re just wrong.

Jared Tate
Yeah, I like it a… For those who might be more interested in this general fading I think he was one of the former Joint Chiefs of Staff just came out with an amazing book called stellar, he’s a former B52 pilot, and he was the Defense Adat Beijing and he goes into a lot about these kind of tactics not just in technology businesses but other business is basically almost any industry when it comes to trade between the United States and Europe and Western nations in China. Do you see these same sorts of behaviors and deceptions?

And you really can’t trust a lot of the numbers that are coming out of there in any industry, and so that’s really what it boils out to you.

So yeah, it’s not surprising at all. I actually ignore them. We were talking earlier, I should start posting some of these offers that I get from these Asian exchanges. Either paying for volume or paying for a listing or promising X, Y, Z. and it came out even on finance, like there’s several people that are like… Yeah, you gotta pay for your own volume on there. It’s a total hype cycle. Their business model wasn’t treating their business model was basically listing fees, and strong-arming people up front. And hey, people are paying it, and they got away with it.

But you know, I really don’t see them as being a viable…

I’ve seen exchanges come and go like this in this kind of behavior, the fact that they’ve ran from one jurisdiction to another jurisdiction, well, they start out in China move the Hong Kong then sing a poor than Japan, and then now they moved the Alto who knows where they’re operating out of they’re operating in a gray area, they can’t go on look like that forever.

So anyway, like I said, I like to think I’m a positive person, but I also didn’t get into this industry and I guess at this point, I’ve dedicated the better part of my adult life to this technology, and so I can’t just sit idly by and let this technology be hijacked and completely perverted from what it was created for.

But unfortunately, we see that happening and I… That’s the whole reason that I spent the last 16 months, writing this book. Blockchain 2035.You made me to it. I was about to ask you about that on what is Blockchain, 2035 all about?

Well, so I first I lined it in 2015, but over the last, especially since I read digit six years, I’ve been asked questions by thousands of people, I’ve sat down with pretty much every major financial institution I’ve sat down with governments up sat down the Central Banks and there’s a lot of the same questions, so I’m like, “Look if I can put all the information that I know and try and put it in one book.

When it comes to blockchain technology, this is why we created it. I would say 95% of this book is about the future of the internet geo-politics and technology.Only about five percent, actually, about Digi-bite.

We split the book in the four parts, we have the unintended menu. Go back here.

So part one is kind of like the basics, the story of “diabase part two is what we call the philosophy. And the philosopher as part three is the applications a part for the future, so we go over everything from how Blockchain can rebuild the internet from the ground up to how governments are using it and weaning this in geopolitics.

We talk about the history of cryptography and how Block chain didn’t just pop up out of nowhere.

It’s actually the evolution of some of the most brilliant mathematical minds going back to Al entering and Claude Shannon, in 1948.And then we also talk about the future with artificial intelligent in quantum quantum computing and how that’s gonna affect blockchain. So it’s a very dynamic book. I co-authored it with my business partner, Andrew, who’s actually a former intelligence analyst he specialized in counter-terrorism. So we’ve got that perspective in it, too, so it’s a very dynamic book.

So yeah, actually I just got a huge shipment. So if anybody wants to order the hard copy, if you go to blockchain in 2035 dot com, you can get it there.

Rob McNealy
And I don’t even need to ask you questions. So what would you say, give me the highlights overview, what is Blockchain, look like in 2035.Well, the reality is we’re in a cross-roads in technology right now and the gist of the book is, if we don’t use lacing technology to take back control of our own data and our own privacy, our privacy is gonna be continued to be eroded, and we’re gonna be living in a technocrat where a handful of mega corporations are using AI systems surveillance systems to measure everything about us.

Jared Tate
We make the example. Why does your washing machine really need to know which clothes you wore, that day and how many times you’ve worn? What does your toast or need to know how many times that you… You’ve made a certain kind of bread, right?

All of this information, all this data slowly eroding our privacy. So with blockchain technology, a specifically applied to cyber security and I’ve said this time in time again, properly applied, blockchain technology and fix 95% of the day, cybersecurity vulnerabilities tracks are becoming more and more prevalent.

You mean there’s a chance that, as we’re sitting here, both of our data is probably in the process of being compromised somewhere just because it’s out there and our local government, especially in America, do not take the proper steps to safeguard this data and information.

And this problem is gonna get much worse but I there is hope on the horizon, and that’s what we try to get across in this book, this future, where by the year 2035, you can use blocking technology to secure everything from all the personal devices in your home, from your phone to your router to your TV to even your healthcare records and much more, and we should be voting so we can have completely transparent honest elections to mitigate a lot of the fraud there.

That’s the future that we want to strive for and we believe it.

So that’s the gist of the book.

Because on the flip side, when I was in Beijing in 2016 speaking in a Chinese conference, I was slated between two Chinese researchers and they presented this vision that has now become the digital REM and B and their entire architecture. Literally, the chart. Their board showed their blockchain, with the central hub that could control everything.

And so when you’re talking about earlier this idea that they are blown away that you didn’t have 20% of the supply. They literally, I think as a group and as a culture of… See the future of blockchain as a way to control the economics of the rest of the world and when it…

Rob McNealy
Well, my take is, and I tell people who are cheerleading China’s all of a sudden the Chinese government decided that they love blockchain. Now, I said this is not something that you’re lead, this is not setting a lot because if one iota about the Chinese government and the Communist Party, there is that anything they can do anything they support will be to their benefit of centralized control of people.

It’ll be the exact opposite of what the ethos at least I come from with blockchain and decentralization is the opposite. They wanna be able to control people as much as possible, and if you think they’re gonna all of a sudden embrace some technology that gives up some power to their government, you’re out of your mind, they are weaning this and they’re gonna weaponized against their people, and I think they’re gonna export that Weinstein outside of their normal domain of operation.

Jared Tate
Yeah, 100%. I literally saw the slides a part of it was in Chinese, but it was pretty apparent what it was in 2016. they had a map of the whole One Belt One Road initiative and as soon as they roll out this digital REM and B, they’re gonna be able to use that to exert control from ports throughout Africa through Europe and across the land route, in your Asia and that’s their plan.

Rob McNealy
Well, if you think about it, at least of what I know about how business is done in China, every major corporation over there has basically, a liaison or an Attache that sits at the company almost like a commode in wars as its return neater. Ines. A lot party member. Yeah, on the more an overseer really. And that’s what I tell people it’s like same thing with like mine, you’re like, Oh, the Chinese are mini legal and big client, I’m like No, they’re not. You don’t get access to hydro-power. And the Ganges, dam in China, if the Communist party isn’t excited about the priest.

Jared Tate
I know people, I met people, when I was inside of China that were doing that. And it was told me straight up, the government was sponsoring say, with the mining hardware manufacturers, one percent.

Rob McNealy
And to me it’s funny you were talking about IoT kind of stuff. I don’t even have a ring, I don’t have a net, I don’t have any kind of smart devices in my house, I don’t even bring the technology into my house and it’s one ’cause people laugh at me. And I said, “You know what all I can assume is what I know about most of this hardware, is that it’s pretty much insecure and its surveillance technology. It’s all surveillance technology, right?

Jared Tate
I went to Whole Foods today and they asked me to scan the QR code, so they knew exactly what food, I’m getting what I’m eating and I told the lady, I’m like… So what are they gonna do with this data in five years or they gonna start selling it to insurance companies, trying to predict what diseases, I’m gonna come down with because of what food I’m eating. So this is what I’m saying, we’re heading towards this era of complete surveillance technocrat.

And if we don’t stand up and start doing something to for this and take control of our own privacy and our own data, we may be too late. And that’s a huge part, in Chapter 2 is a revolution in ownership taking ownership of our own data our own money, our own information, and actually using that to make money. If somebody wants to reveal what food purchases, the… Are they should get a little reward for that, if they wanna reveal what clothes they’re actually wearing and washing to their IOT washing machine. Okay, well they should get paid for that, but at least in crypto data and their information using something like a zero knowledge proof or some other sort of innovative Philatelic technology, I think really… With the brave browser they’re pioneering that concept. And I’m like, “Okay I watch these I’ll click on an ad every now and then, I’m getting free bat at least I have control over that and I can shut that off when I want to. And you know what, if you think about it, they’re just being a little less greedy right? Yeah, exactly, in their share, yeah. Well, you look at…

I, I don’t like up. Sorry, go, sorry. No, I was gonna say is, you look at YouTube and some of these other centralized content creation portals, they’ve just really gotten outrageously greedy for sure. And in the political bias is becoming ever more apparent. And now I just saw the idea that they’re blocking all content regarding vaccines, on… Was it Facebook? I’m not seeing everything’s truthful. We all know there’s fake news, but the completely sense or something just because one group of people believes it’s right, it’s amazing how much I’ve seen the First Amendment rights in the United States be eroded in the last two years.

Rob McNealy
That’s scary, yeah, I… Well, we’re coming from a project. I actually don’t even have any interest in being on centralized exchanges at all, but I would much rather just be on exes and “tomic swap apps and things like that. But the problem is, as a project, you don’t get credit for that because the way projects are evaluated right now in the United States, and globally is what their market cap is on certain exchange of which to me is really a dumb way to measure a project, but that’s how we view it right now.

Jared Tate
And to me, I’m moving towards in my mind, it’s all about the privacy and decentralization aspect where it seems that the heavy way players that are coming into this space, all about centralization, it’s like, kind of… I’m always a NASA but I think it’s just because I think things differently, and I look at things longer term, like the laws of Wyoming. I am doing great stuff.

Rob McNealy
Yeah, actually I was gonna say, I don’t like anything they’re doing up there for the most part, but I also used to know some of the people involved politically up there when I lived in Miami. But here’s the thing, if you look at the laws up there what they’re doing, they’re trying to make it… So Wyoming is Wall Street for crypto, and for crypto banking. And to me, I don’t want the states to get involved. I know they will but I’m saying is, if you think about it, they’re trying to make it. So it’s about being a competitor to Wall Street and basically, it’s all about centralization and physical custody, and things of that nature. And to me, that’s not where we need to be focusing our efforts, our focus should be de-criminalizing and changing the way things like the IRS treats crypto transactions. To me, I believe that personally is where people should be putting their energy politically, because I do believe that the IRS treatment of crypto is probably going to be the number one impediment to adoption especially by retailers. And I know that ’cause I talk to retailers and when they start hearing about the accounting things they have to deal with to be compliant with accepting crypto they’re not interested. That’s one of the biggest turn-offs. Most projects aren’t even involved. So we’re so far away from adoption in most cases that that objection, isn’t even been talked about to the by people, they always talk about the SEC, and… And realistically two years ago we started looking at the SEC laws when were looking we were thinking about doing an ICO originally, and we started looking… This actually does apply pretty old.

If we look at the SEC, in my opinion, the are actually do apply pretty straight forward to crypto. Now, a lot of crypto people will say they don’t. And I, I believe they do.

It’s pretty obvious when you read the case studies in this area of law is pretty obvious that this is what it is, but what doesn’t fit in my mind is the IRS. And you don’t hear really people bitching about that yet, and I think you will, but to me, it’s about getting away from the stat and empowering people and when you start talking about all the states doing this and that and like the… I don’t care what the state’s doing, I wanna get out of the way. We don’t need the state to help crypto we need to state to get out of the way of crypto which of course, when it comes down to… No, the argument’s gonna do that either.

Oh yeah, the libertarian in me. 100% agrees with you, right?

Jared Tate
But from my understanding of Wyoming that they were trying to allow people to basically be in control of their own assets. ’cause I see two regulatory approaches and frameworks, forming in the United States. You have the New York crowd which is trying to push everybody down the traditional broker-dealer route and these clearing houses and maintain their monopoly that they already have.

I think Wyoming which is actually saying, “Hey no, people should be able to be able to in charge and take control our own stuff.

So that’s been my perspective on it.

I do, as a libertarian agree, Hey, we should be able to do what we’re doing. As long as a LIM A when it comes to reading laws. ’cause of my day job, I deal with a lot of law stuff ’cause I’m an expert witness, so I have to read loaded to be very politically active. One of the… I can get the bill for you, but one of the laws of Wyoming, if you want to maintain the protection of the state, you actually have to disclose all your foot digital assets to the CEO. There’s this that… Yeah, there’s a little… But it… This way there’s no sin. Gotcha, right we got is in there. Yeah, so as a… So, not a tight… Yeah, well, I guess there is no income tax and we want… But, well, then there’s also opines there’s all sorts of taxes, there’s not an income, tax yet, but there probably will be eventually, but here I’m not here to rat out my owning, just as I just get skeptical ’cause people say, “Oh I really like what X is doing, and then he’s like… Okay, did you look at the law itself?

Rob McNealy
You could read the big right. I didn’t actually read the bill. So, no one runs her in an eco. The bills and I always read the bills. I’ll give you an example, I’m a gun guy. And our projects really kind of in the gun space too. And so, Wyman fire and freedoms Bill, they were trying to pass a few years back when we lived up there. And the thing is, it was basically a bill and it sounded great.

That’s Pro-Gun. It’s excited on the gun, or as excited. And the whole concept was that it would make it… So if you made a gun in Wyoming, you didn’t have to comply, basically, you could not comply a Federal law if you didn’t take it outside. State. A woman, which is amazing, but the problem is there is nothing in the bill for the state to protect you from the federal government.

If I did that, so it was a really good sounding bill. It was a feel-good bill, but it didn’t actually have any teeth and it didn’t actually give the support needed so it never accounted, it never amounted anything.

So I always say, it’s like any time you start looking at laws, you gotta read the devil’s always in the details and look at the requirements. And so, for instance, “Otten bill, there was a God, they had a utility their first one or one of the first ones with the utility token law, but the problem is with the utility tokens their bill, it says There was a Gotha in the… Gotcha, and that was that. If you make this your utility token available for purchase as an investment that basically notifies the protections.

Well, what a… Well, what does that mean, while that means that if you put it on an exchange making it available for an Ivan investment, you now nullified all the was, or the protection of the bill. So, it sounds good, but then when you look at the bell it doesn’t do what people say it does. And I know a lot of people, I was very politically active and Wyoming. So I know a lot of policy wants up there, and so we have a lot of conversations about these things so things aren’t always what you think they are, right?

Yeah, and to end with it and it always comes down to also when is that law tested and what happens at that point? And we had to fall on the night for it.

Well, we haven’t had any… We haven’t had any of those laws tested at this point. So, it’s unproven how it’s going to be how it’s gonna play out.

I know a lot about the cannabis laws in Colorado. The devil is always in the details. Now, when you’ve got these super high taxes for men, 64 what now makes it… So the black market is thriving, because the taxes on recreational. weed or so expensive it’s cheaper to illegally, so right, and so it didn’t solve that problem which was what it was supposed to do.

Jared Tate
It’s always able to details but… So going to a point you made earlier, I wanted about market caps, we actually have a whole chapter dedicated to evaluating and vetting a project, and we started off with something we call the market cap policy and how it’s an absolutely horrible metric of evaluating a project and we go through several pages explaining why an example. So it’s something I wanted to point out there, ’cause what you said before about market caps people just go and say, “Hey I wanna look at the top 10 or 15. first of all, you have projects that are actually unique and decentralized and we actually separated not chapter 9, a survey of existing blockchain protocols, Chapter 10, a survey of existing product projects, and we differentiate that a project is built on an independent protocol, but independent protocols are independent, and when you look at the Coin Market Cap like Top 50 there’s really only maybe a dozen, actually independent protocols, a lot of them are ERC-20 tokens, or stable coins or other things that should never be compared to truly decentralize independent protocols because they don’t have the same value. So we go into that in Chapter 11. so I just want to…

Rob McNealy
I think it’s important and I come back, I’m an entrepreneur, so I am not a developer, I look at things like marketing plan team, how it’s managed, the taking, how are they solving problems and whose problems are they’re solving? Those are the things that I look at. I’m just kind of… I always look at risk mitigation, and things like that, and it’s interesting, and this is why I’m actually bearish on a lot of the top hundred in really bearish on because if you look at who’s running these projects, it’s people that don’t have any background in running a project or a business or taking some of the market and most of them just got a lot of inertia from their initial ICO push, and they’re still writing. I think a lot of these projects are just writing the initial ICO kind of inertia, but I think ultimately in my mind eventually, projects are gonna have to be evaluated based on the number of people that are willing to pay to use them or are using them for a utilitarian purpose, and not just speculating.

Jared Tate
Yeah, it has to happen. Well, a lot of these ICOS, they’re still paying for their own markets they’re they’re still hiring people to sit there and wash trade and increase their market cap.

We actually similar what you said we came up with, we call the blockchain 2035 rubric basically what chance does this project still have to be around in the year? 2035?

And we identified basically five areas, the economic model and the vision, which consensus algorithm that it’s built upon or protocol, the number of actual full nodes on the network, the age of the protocol or the project and then what kind of governance model and team… And then we go through and we actually talk about several areas to give people pointers where to go look at for that. So anyway, that’s a some good stuff, but yeah, I definitely agree with you on that.

Rob McNealy
And so one of my last questions are based on input from your community, what are you doing about quantum computing and the risk that quantum computing posed to blockchains in the future?

So that is the very last chapter in the book, we call it the quantum leap, and we actually start off with a quote from Donald Rumsfeld, about the unknown unknowns, and the reality is, there’s a lot of things we don’t truly know yet and there are no… So I guess we got a differentiate here. So first of all, we give a little background and explaining what exactly quantum computing is and I think a lot of people don’t quite grasp the magnitude of the LEAP. The quantum will be…

’cause what it really means is, we’re going from just on or off the transistor. Zero were on, I don’t know, bits and binary to an exponential amount of possibilities in our system, so our entire ecosystem and code stack and everything that’s been built since World War II has to be rebuilt from the ground up with quantum computing, right, and so we haven’t even standardized what languages there are, what formats this work, the way I compare it is the biggest Advent in the digital era, after cloud, Shannon’s information theory, because at the end of the World War II, we had the ability to measure time we could measure distance we can measure weight but we couldn’t measure information, right? And then once you came up with that theory, and then once the transistor was developed at Bell Labs, that’s when we had our leap frog exponential moment into the digital revolution, right?

We haven’t really had that moment with quantum computing yet so because we haven’t had that moment we haven’t had the ability to actually truly test and understand quantum true quantum algorithms, so there really is none out there, but what we do have is what people are calling quantum resistant algorithms and there’s been an effort by NIS which is the National Institute for Standards and Technology, to create a next generation quantum resistant algorithm and there’s been several proposals it’s an ongoing process and the leader of that so far, that looks promising, in something called Spin, spin, plus, which could be used to replace “chatti in other algorithms and we’ve actually looked at potentially adopting that earlier, on with diabetes.

However, because it is more complex and computationally extensive, they would dramatically slow down, sink and validation times with a core wallet. So, they’re… There’s a trade-off. So, that algorithm hasn’t been I guess formally standardized, but it is supported by people. Like for instance, Ralph Merkle who invented public private key photography, he is also the founder of the merle. Tree data structure. In a blockchain, so he’s my opinion one of the the wise guys around and he’s still here giving us inside it and help.

So there’s really a lot of unknowns right now.

Rob McNealy
Well, I was gonna say that one of the reasons I actually oppose putting personalized information on the web, including medical information and including things like gun registrations, which I’ve heard from a few different places, is that at some point I do believe that Shaw 256 will be broken and it probably isn’t that far away. Next 5, 10, 15, 20 years. And that’s a much bigger problem if personal informations on the blockchain. And this is something I think about.

And my wife’s a medical doctor. So, understand that we talk about… And she’s one of our co-founders, so we talk a lot about blockchain, and medical applications and we’ve both come out saying We don’t want medical stuff on water all or personal information because think of it this way.

And again, unless you have a quantum resistant kind of system, maybe that would change this, but under the current SHA 256 algorithm encryption protocol that everybody’s using right now, if you have a normal data breach with health records generally it’s one location, it gets leaked to the dark web but it’s not widespread. Typically, they’re going to sell the data, they’re just not giving away for free. The problem is if you have certain private information spread across thousands of nodes on a blockchain and all of a sudden your encryption just gets opened up to the wild.

Now, that data is really all over the place and there’s no way that that’s gonna limit the exposure of that data. Where is at least with normal data breaches, as they are now typically the data is not widespread, whereas I think it’d be a much bigger mess if, let’s just say a blockchain with information like that on it was exposed to… What would you think about that?

Jared Tate
Well, first of all, I think you’re confusing to subjects, right? So, shot, to 56 is in hashing older. It’s one way.

So, when you hash something you’re not actually storing that data on the blockchain, right? When we talk about cracking a shot to 56-H and exposing private keys for a wallet that’s completely different than something when it comes to like your health history records that could be encrypted with something like a yes, right?

So those are kind of two different approaches there.

So I do think that what we have now is relatively…

I’m never gonna say anything is 100% absolute because there’s always the unknown, a notes, but I do think we’re in a phase specifically, by either using SHA 512 or adding something like singles for protecting assets, and so… And using the hashing ability of information in a bar chain I think that’s perfectly safe.

I do, because I think that’s one of the biggest misnomer a lot of people get confused on is, when you’re actually anchoring into a chain, some information, you’re anchoring a mathematical proof of that information and not the information itself.

So there’s no way of ever actually getting that data, if you’re just hashing it onto the chain if that makes sense. And that makes sense to me.

Locally, exposed, and that’s actually… We’re working on expanding a little bit more with Digi-assets to make that a little bit wider, known because things like that, or for instance, what we’re doing with DG ID to use your private keys, to replace passwords. There’s a lot of features and cryptographic use cases that I believe are super under-leverage when it comes to blocking technology.

But going back to the quantum question, I do believe that centralized systems banks, stuff like that, are gonna get hit way before blockchains will, because even if we shot to 56, the theoretical limit depending, it depends on the algorithm that you used the crack, right?

So there’s two algorithms that are been ferried that have been possible to make it easier to crack a lot of these cryptographic hashes, the shores algorithm and rovers algorithm and they’re different approaches.

And currently, so when we talk about quiet, it’s basically how many different states there are. Potential logic gates, right?

D-wave systems just sold a 5000-equipped machine, the loss sale in most national laboratory.

Right now, not all quantum computing machines are the same, not there’s basically two different types, one of them is more stable. That’s more for general purpose computing. I like the CP in your computer and then the other one’s kind of like an ASIC right? So the D-wave systems kinda like an ASIC. It’s only really good for a specific thing, whereas what Google’s 50 equipment, machine is for general purpose quantum computing, and those are the ones we really have to be worried about, right?

But some of the theoretical numbers say that if we hit a 5000 equipment machine, that could crack shot 56 and exposed private keys for Bitcoin funds, but that’s theoretical. Nobody’s done it but the reality is the people that are working on this or the biggest governments on the planet. Well, I was gonna say the people that have access to that technology are gonna be state actors and in probably intelligence a Military actors, and they’re not gonna tell you if it probably… Yeah, exactly. And so this is where we talk about the unknown unknowns, right?

All we can continue doing is building systems based upon the open source scientific data and information out there, which I am a believer in open source movements. I do believe in open source academic mathematical movement is always gonna supersede anything that’s done in a private corporation or some back rooms of a government. Because I think the collective mind of humanity is always gonna be stronger than a few isolated individuals who can’t share and collaborate, I think that makes a lot of sense. .

Rob McNealy
We’re getting close on time here. A dared. So where can people find out more about you, Digi-bite, and blockchain at 2035?

Jared Tate
Well, so if you wanna know a little bit more about me, we talk about it in the book. So if you go to blockchain, 2035 dot com, we talk about our stories, how we ended up in the situation writing this book and how I started how I got involved with Digby, and blockchain.

If you’re looking to find out more about digit go-to… Did you bite that? I you can hit a stuff on a Telegram Chat.

We have a super passionate active, helpful community.

I’m not a CEO, I’m not in charge of anything. Nobody gets paid to work on Digi-item. It’s a completely grassroots decentralized project, so we warmly welcome everybody to come check us out and get involved in. If you wanna be a part of something, whether it’s building on top of the digit protocol or helping contribute to Core. There’s tons of things that we have going on right now,

Rob McNealy
Jared, thank you so much coming on today, thank you very much for having me.

Episode Links

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Truth Raider on Bitcoin Mining in the USA

Truth Raider, talks with Rob McNealy about large scale bitcoin mining projects being developed in Texas and other locations around the USA.

Crypto Euclid & Mystical Oaks

Crypto Euclid and Mystical Oaks, hosts of That Bitcoin Show, talk with Rob McNealy about bitcoin, crypto, personal finance and how they help organize their local crypto community.

Naomi Brockwell, on Libra, CSW, and the Future of Crypto

In This Episode

In this podcast interview, Rob McNealy interviews crypto influencer and journalist, Naomi Brockwell, about Libra, CSW, the Bitcoin community, and the future of crypto.

About Naomi Brockwell

Naomi Brockwell is an actress, film/tv producer, and opera singer based in NYC.

Naomi is the CEO and founder of Rainsworth Productions, Contributor for Reason TV,  former Contributor for JagTV, former Director/Producer and Program Officer at the Moving Picture Institute, Media Liaison Officer for the Principality of Hutt River, and from 2015-2017 was a producer of the Stossel Show (21 Century Fox).

Naomi is leading actress in the 2015 Lionsgate thriller Subconscious, co-executive producer and casting producer of the 2015 documentary drama Audition (Winner Best Documentary at Lone Star Film Festival, Winner Best Film Editing at Manchester International Film Festival) and associate producer of 2015 feature documentary Bitcoin: The End of Money as We Know It (Winner Special Jury Prize at Amsterdam Film Festival, Winner Best Film at Amsterdam Film Festival). She is featured in many other projects, including the short film Yes, Happy with award winning director/writer Jeffrey Jay Fowler and award winning film-maker Francisco Aliwalas.

Naomi had her off-Broadway debut in 2012 as a lead in the musical, Man with a Load of Mischief at the York Theater, alongside Broadway stars PJ Benjamin, Stephen R. Buntrock, Rachel de Benedet, Nancy Johnston and Robert Petkoff.

In 2013 she had her opera debut with the New York Lyric Opera in Suor Angelica.

Naomi appears regularly on FBN as a spokesperson for bitcoin, and has also appeared on the Larry Parks Show, the Peter Schiff Show, and has been featured in the Wall Street Journal, Playboy, and Bloomberg.

Naomi has a degree in Acting (Curtin), Classical Music (WA Academy of Performing Arts), a Certificate I in Musical Theatre (WAAPA). She also studied musical theater at the WA Academy of Dance and Drama, and opera at Mannes Classical Music Conservatoire in New York. She has studied Improv Theater at Second City in Toronto and The Pit in New York.

Naomi speaks English, French, German, Italian, and basic Russian. She plays piano, guitar, drums, percussion, recorder, and ukulele, and has performed in orchestras, jazz bands, concert bands, and acoustically throughout Australia. She is a state gold medal-winning Irish Dancer, and is highly trained in many other forms of dance.


Calvin Weight, CEO of Coinbook – 6 Month Update!

In This Episode

In this podcast interview, Rob McNealy once again interviews Calvin Weight, the CEO of They discussed Coinbook’s first six months of growth and the world of crypto.

About Calvin Weight

Calvin Weight is the CEO of Coinbook. Prior to starting the company, Calvin studied at Brigham Young University in International Business Finance and then completed his Master’s Degree in Finance at the University of Utah. He has worked as a Financial Analyst for many years, but has been involved in markets and trading for even longer. He has traded in Foreign Exchange markets, the stock market, options and futures markets, as well as the Cryptocurrency markets. He was introduced to bitcoin in 2012 and survived the MtGOX bankruptcy, the Cryptsy bankruptcy, and most of the major industry drama over the years. Calvin saw first hand the challenges and problems that individuals face in the crypto industry and decided to create an exchange to solve those problems.

Coinbook is a US-based Crypto Exchange. They went live on Oct 31, 2018, the 10 year anniversary of the bitcoin whitepaper. The problems that Coinbook is solving are making the bitcoin buying experience safe and easy. By creating an account with Coinbook you interact with a simple interface that makes buying bitcoin for a new user very intuitive and understandable. We are going to add coins that don’t currently trade for US Dollars so we will bring variety to the space. You’ll also earn achievements and get rewarded for trading and doing simple things on the platform. Some achievements will result in money or prizes so don’t forget to add your t-shirt size to your profile.


CoinBook Crypto Exchange
Calvin Weight on LinkedIn

Emal Safi, CEO Aircoins Augmented Reality Crypto App

Emal Safi

About Emal Safi

Emal Safi is specialized in strategic development and deployment of technical business systems. Assisted over a dozen blockchain projects. Created smart contracts and tokens for decentralized platforms on the Ethereum blockchain. Provided direction to business executives in an array of modern blockchain and digital asset initiatives including enterprise architecture, banking systems, payment processors, online retailers, financial systems, exchange platforms, blockchain and bridge protocols. Provided leadership for front end developers, cloud engineers, mobile developers, database analysts, cyber security experts, content creators and
marketers. Currently leading the Aircoins team – Biggest Crypto AR platform in the world!


AirCoins App: