Politics

Brock Pierce – Independent Presidential Candidate Transcript

Brock Pierce - Independent Presidential Candidate

Note: This transcript was automatically generated by artificial intelligence (AI) and therefore typos may be present.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com 0:01
Hey folks, Rob McNealy here. Hey folks Rob McNealy here and I am super excited. Today we are talking to Brock Pierce. He is probably the quintessential godfather of crypto and it is a true honor to be speaking with you. Hey, Brock, how are you?

Brock Pierce-Presidential Candidate 0:19
Grateful. Glad to be here.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com 0:22
I’m glad you’re here too. So a funny thing happened to me about a week ago, I was scrolling through the internet scrolling through the Twitter’s and I see this announcement from you. On Twitter, it says you’re running for president. Tell me what’s going on here, man.

Brock Pierce-Presidential Candidate 0:44
Well, I’m I’m running for president of the United States of America as an independent candidate.I guess the the Why is perhaps what you want to know?

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com 0:56
I would love to know the why.

Brock Pierce-Presidential Candidate 1:01
I’m very concerned about our collective future, you know, as a nation, but you know, as a species even, I look around, and I feel that we’re facing a number of existential threats. I see a nation that’s divided, I see polarization between the left and the right. And I don’t think that we’re on the right path. I’m very concerned about our collective future if we continue going down this path. And so I’m looking around for the last, you know, five years going, Okay, you know, where are these? You know, where are these people going? When are these people going to show up that are going to actually know how to fix this stuff, you know, kind of looking around waiting for something to happen, and no one’s really showing up. I see a lot of people talking about the changes that are needed, but I don’t see people throwing themselves, you know, into this type of running. And I think that this is a place from which we can make real change. And if no one else is going to do it, I guess I will. And I think there’s an important message that the American people need to hear right now, which is that we are all in this together, you know, this whole us versus them, we are us, and we are them. What happens to you is going to happen to me. And we need to find a way, I think, to transcend partisan politics to find a collective path forward, and so I’m excited to deliver a message that’s a little different than probably anything anyone’s heard, you know, at least in presidential candidates, which is a message from the heart, and it’s how do we reunite our nation? You know, how do we find that path forward together, so that there is a future for our kids and their kids and the generations that follow?

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com 2:46
I think that is something that we need right now. But I’m not gonna softball you. I mean, I got I got a real question. I mean, we had Kanye West announced that he was gonna run for office and then right around the time, you know, that you announced as well. Is this a serious run army? And is this just like a vanity thing? And I don’t mean that in a disrespectful way. I was a member of the Libertarian Party I ran as a third party candidate, knowing that I would never win the third party candidate. Are you serious about this?

Brock Pierce-Presidential Candidate 3:16
I’m always serious about everything I do. I mean, certainly a commitment like this. I don’t think you would do it. I mean, I wouldn’t do it for any reason other than is a very, very, very serious endeavor. And things are going, things are going really well. And I do believe there’s a path to winning. But the question is, what is winning? From my perspective, there’s three different versions of winning, at a minimum, delivering a message that can get us to focus on the things that matter if that message is amplified enough and heard by enough people that could bring about real change. And so I think that that’s called level one. Winning is delivering that message. And we’ll see how effective I can be in doing that. The next level of winning is if that message actually starts to become a movement, you know, a movement, this isn’t about me, this is about all of us that actually believe in transcending partisan politics to bring about real change in this nation at a time that we need it. You know, I believe this is the 11th hour, I believe this is our defining moment, you know, the future is going to happen to us, or it’s going to happen with us. And I encourage all of us to get involved, if you see what I see, you know, if you feel when I feel it’s time to do something, this is our time to act. And so that movement through this election in 2020, to 2022, to 2024. You know, this is intended to be a movement that will bring about real change. And it’s not about me, it’s about all of us, all of us that are willing to sign up to go do something about it, and that signing up might be as little as voting, but let’s actually start to create the world in which we all want to live. And so that movement, I’d say is the second level of winning, and obviously the third, would be to be in the White House and in January of next year.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com 5:06
You said you have a path to winning. And, and I see multiple wins there. You have a path to get ballot access, what is your strategy to get on a ballot?

Brock Pierce-Presidential Candidate 5:16
Yeah, so, um, we’re on the ballot of Oklahoma as of yesterday.And we have a giant team working across the country, we will be on many many ballots.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com 5:31
Very cool. I know, it’s like, especially in some states and, you know, running independents almost harder than running, you know, third party and a lot of these places because the the signature requirements and, and let’s just be honest, the the duopoly political system that we have, they don’t want competition from people and candidates that aren’t controlled. And so they make that third party Rhonda, that independent run very, very challenging, just from the requirements gathering point of view. And so, I always want to just say okay, here, people want to run for But it’s like, okay, there’s an actual pragmatic issue of getting, you know, on the ballot. And so if you have a strategy for that, I mean, that is amazing. So are you how are you funding this campaign? Are you gonna be self funding? Are you looking for donors? What’s that looking like for you guys?

Brock Pierce-Presidential Candidate 6:17
So I self funded the entire call it beginning process of the campaign and I’m still the largest contributor to the campaign. But I believe that you want as many people participating and feeling ownership in the process. And so clearly, we are looking for anyone that wants to donate to this to this cause to this campaign. And in an ideal world, that would be millions of people, you know, dating and donating $1 $5 $10 $20 that’s in an ideal world, what would happen here and, and we hope that many people choose to get involved.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com 6:53
And I think that makes a lot of sense. You do need a community it’s like building a crypto project, you need a herd supporting it.

Brock Pierce-Presidential Candidate 6:59
I’d say this is one of the mistakes that I think Bloomberg made. Bloomberg chose to self fund everything. The problem is when you fund everything, you’re not out there building community, right? You’re not out there, giving people a feeling of ownership, you know, just funding yourself causes you to do things that you wouldn’t do otherwise, which is putting yourself before the people as much as possible and all the people and realizing that, you know, that person that gave you $1 is is just a much they’ve opted in. They are a contributor as the person that gave you 20 $800. And, you know, going out there and give building that coalition building that community of supporters. And I think it’s an essential part of the process. And I think that Bloomberg would have done better had he chosen to involve as many people as possible versus self funding.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com 7:50
Well, I think part of the problem is, is that he bought that portion essentially, and instead of like trying to build a community, he just thought he could buy his way around that. And he missed the most important function is getting that buy in from people. And I think that you’re right that that’s absolutely a catastrophic mistake he made on his part. So platform, what are your issues? What are your hot button topics that you’re going to be, you know, focused on during the campaign?

Brock Pierce-Presidential Candidate 8:18
Well, I’m, obviously the areas where I’m differentiated is in technology. For one. I think that technology has clearly affected all of our lives and all of our businesses and it’s going to continue to do so. And how do we work with technology to enhance our lives? And so technology is clearly a core component of everything we’re doing as a as an entrepreneur as a small business builder and owner. Clearly, I’m a big supporter of small business. I would be a small business sort of President. It’s probably worth noting other major things right now clearly we we need reform around our police our run our justice system around our prison system. These are hot button topics right now. And I firmly believe that we need real reform in these areas, well being health, health care, all of these sorts of things we can talk about mental health probably being the most important of which, you know, it’s, we know when our body is unhealthy, but it’s, you know, because you can see and feel it. But when you’re, you’re having mental health issues or spiritual health issues, those are not recognized as much and I think our country has a real mental health issue right now, this has been a very traumatizing year, whether it be you know, fear of COVID itself or just fear of how am I going to pay my mortgage, my rent put food on the table might be fear around our our future, the uncertainty of just everything that’s happening. So it’s been a very traumatic year. And that’s something that is not being discussed, I think nearly enough, might be worth also just commenting on my process. And so what We’re going to be releasing this week is the details of this process. And so how do most politicians come up with their platform? And how do they define, you know, where do their policy ideas come from? It often comes from, you know, talking to experts, or lobbyists behind closed doors. But I’m going to do this a little differently, which is, instead of me meeting with people behind closed doors, I’m going to meet with these people. You know, with open doors, I’m going to do this in an open forum live in a town hall, so that if you want to see who I’m talking to, you know, where I’m getting my information from, and actually observe that conference, that that that process, that conversation, I invite you to tune in and actually watch and at the end, even to participate in the QA, and so that we can learn together. I don’t need to do this privately. I’ll show you who I get my information from. I’ll even you’ll watch me get educated in real time and you can learn right there alongside me and at the end of that process around each college policy issue, we’re going to be taking that portion of the platform and publishing that into a collaborative platform so that you can comment at it. And we can work on these issues together. You know, too often I think Polly politicians feel the need to have an answer to every question. versus just saying, I don’t know, I don’t have all the answers. But let’s get to that answer. And here’s my process for getting there. And I don’t know where that where the best information is going to come from. I know in the world of open source software by putting projects into GitHub, you know, everyone can become a contributor, because I truly believe that every one of our voices matter, you know, everyone’s voice should be heard, at least have the potential for it to be heard in every voice counts. And so I truly want to give us that feeling of participation. And so this is an invitation to, to get involved, be part of the process.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com 11:50
You’re going to be doing that for your campaign as well, where you’re actually taking in real time through like a repository kind of website.

Brock Pierce-Presidential Candidate 11:57
That’s the goal. That should all be live. Starting next week.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com 12:01
I’m excited to see it actually. Okay, so we’re screwed right now. I mean, I think on so many metrics in the United States, we have a lot of problems that we’re facing right now. And in my not so humble opinion, I think 2021 is actually going to be worse than 2020. Because I think that’s when a lot of the the damage that I believe has been done to the economy is probably gonna start manifesting. So January 1 2021, there’s a Brock Pierce presidency, you’re inheriting a giant mass, what’s the first thing you’re going to do

Brock Pierce-Presidential Candidate 12:37
in terms of the economy, while we need to basically get jump started again, you know, people have to are gonna have to get back to work at some point. Some of the data that I received yesterday and I haven’t fact checked this yet, can we fact check this? The World Food Programme or WFP, as well as I think it was A released information saying that the economic damage related to this is going to cause 130 million deaths in the developing world due to starvation. And so I think what you’re raising is we understand the impact of the virus itself. And we understand, you know, the number of people that are getting sick and how many people are dying and how this is being affected, but we don’t really have a lot of visibility into the long term impact that this is going to have on the economy. Clearly, you know, unemployment rates, you know, skyrocketing small businesses failing, skyrocketing. And even when things open back up again, you can’t just put the band back together again. You know, it doesn’t it doesn’t it’s there’s not like an on off switch. It doesn’t work this way. And so yeah, it’s it’s going to be a very long road. And hopefully, we don’t end up in a situation similar to the Great Depression. And so where do I think the path forward? The United States has been the capital of innovation for a long time? And I think that we want to make sure that we continue to To be that through this fourth industrial revolution, I love the fact that we’re bringing the big fabricators like tsmc and Samsung into the United States to bring semiconductor development here. Clearly cities like Detroit that have all of this infrastructure for mass manufacturing, these things can be repurposed to be building, you know, 21st century products. And so how do we how do we bring as much innovation back into the economy? How do we invest in call it our collective future? You know, one of the things that we can do is invest heavily in upgrading, call it our infrastructure as a country. You know, there’s a and these are the sorts of things that can bring and create high paying high skilled jobs. I think that continuing to support innovation is probably the best path forward.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com 14:47
Yeah, I agree. And it’s funny because I’m not funny, funny laugh laugh, but, you know, you’ve been reading my Twitter because I’ve been talking about the potential starvation issue next year. For three months now. That’s because I view that is because that, you know, four of the world’s major food exporting countries now are having looks like agricultural yields that are going to be much lower this fall. And if that if the harvest numbers in the fall do fall below a certain level, those four countries are not going to be exporting food to the third world. And that is what’s going to cause that starvation and and that is a concern. I’ve been telling people playing the garden since March. And because I think food is going to skyrocket in price and I think it’s going to create a lot of turmoil if that happens, but we won’t know what that really looks like until the fall harvest numbers but but I’m tracking with you there. Brock, I think I am concerned about that. foreign policy. What..

Brock Pierce-Presidential Candidate 15:42
Just one last point on that. When we look at like what happened in Syria and other places. When we see these revolutions occur. It normally comes from rising prices in food food, when people become hungry. You know, that’s when you know things get really gnarly. Yeah. And this is going to be a very real issue. And one and one that I’d like to echo that, that statement and continue to echo and echo and echo and echo it, which is planted garden planting garden. You know, this is something that it’s good for your health. It’s good for your spirit. And it might be really good for your belly. If things get too and your pocketbook

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com 16:29
I’ll send you some Zucchinis because my wife is we’re overwhelmed and zucchini right now but yeah, I mean, we planted our biggest garden ever this year for the same reason and and as much as we dollar cost average or SATs for doing that now with groceries as well buy food. I’m telling people buy food. I hope I’m wrong on this because you know, it’s like when you get countries like India, which is the number two rice exporter, India feeds the Middle East, their rice and Africa their rice. Right now Brazil is the number one protein exporter in the world. They’re having massive problem with COVID and I think It’ll be interesting to see what happens in the US. And again, I’m looking at those fall numbers. I mean, the commodities traders out there probably are the most clued in on what’s happening in that field. But I think people are gonna be really paying attention to commodities brokers and about, you know, for months. And it’ll be interesting with those futures look like, I guess. Well, I know, we don’t have a lot of time left, but foreign policy right now. We’re in multiple wars still. That seemed like they’re never ending. We’re having bad trade relations with places like China. There’s obviously a lot of contention with Russia. How will Brock Pierce deal with foreign the one just foreign policy in general, but these specific kind of problems we’re seeing right now.

Brock Pierce-Presidential Candidate 17:45
So I’ve spent most of my life working all over the world. You know, I lived in Europe for a meaningful amount of my life. I’ve lived in Asia for a substantial amount of my life. And I’ve traveled the world. You know continually for my my entire adult life. And so yeah, we live in we share one planet? And how do we deal with our neighboring countries and countries around the world? And how do we put in place good trade policies that make dollars and cents with an objective or an intention of Win Win scenarios, you know, doing, you know, putting in place creating arrangements for both parties benefit? You know, it’s not you don’t have to, you know, I don’t have to win, you know, you don’t have to lose for me to win. And, and how, you know, knowing that, you know, peace and prosperity is the, you know, call it, I think long term objective for all of us. How do we create a more peaceful world? Now, how do we deal with, you know, some of the more challenging government situations of China probably being the most complicated of them. And I guess we’re where would you like to double click on any of this? Absolutely.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com 18:59
Brock, where can people find out more if they want to get involved with supporting your campaign or donating to your campaign?

Brock Pierce-Presidential Candidate 19:05
I go to the website which is Brock.vote, you know, Brock.vote. And you can sign up to just to stay tuned, stay aware of what it is that we’re doing. Clearly you can volunteer and get involved to the extent that you’d like to support this, this process and donate as well to the extent that you’d like to to contribute. All of it matters. We seek all of your support.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com 19:33
Brock, thank you so much for coming on today. I look forward to watching your campaign unfold over the next few months.

Brock Pierce-Presidential Candidate 19:40
Yeah, Rob. Happy to come back again. It’s good to see you. Thank you for having me. Have a great day. You too.

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Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops” Transcript

Daniel Jones - AKA "Nixops""

Note: This transcript was automatically generated by artificial intelligence (AI) and therefore typos may be present.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Hey Rob McNealy here and today I am super super excited. I am talking to someone who is an expert in personal security privacy on the internet, and general all around smart guy when it comes to crypto, crypto hacking, software development. His name it goes he goes by Nixops but his real name is Daniel Jones, which I think sounds either like a fake name or something. But how are you today, Dan?

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
Good. Oh, good. No, that’s my real name. Most people assume it’s fake, but it’s actually my name. My parents had no originality.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
That’s okay. So um, we’ve been connected on social media for a while and you guys, you dig into some cool stuff. And you really talk about a lot of privacy related stuff. And there’s a lot of stuff happening out there. I think right now that people aren’t really even hearing about are talking about, but I just want to talk a little bit about your background. And then let’s just jump into talking about a bunch of different stuff. So Tell, tell the audience who doesn’t know who you are. Tell us a little bit about your background and how you got into this space.

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
I’m just I’m a programmer. I started off as a Linux, Unix sysadmin and started learning c++ and from there, you got a driver development became a software engineer. I mean, I started working with, you know, ever wide range of experience from Driver Development, OS level stuff to Software as a Service, high performance computing, cryptography and cryptocurrencies. Um, I just like I always say my tagline I’m a general purpose hacker, whatever you need to be done and money’s right. I’ll build it.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Sorry, independent then, do you work for a company?

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
Uh, I am working for a company right now I’m working for two companies right now, I also do a lot of independent work and some open source development. It just depends on time that should right there. If you can figure out how to add a few more hours per day, I would pay you a lot for that, you know, you just make that happen.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
I’m working on it. My magic wand. Actually, it’ll be our next rollout on, you know, hard fork number, blah, blah, blah, and extra hours in the day blocks.

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
Are you gonna put that in?

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Well, I mean, I mean, I get that too, because like, you know, like, what? We’re, you know, we’re doing our we do our little crypto project, and we’re open source and everybody’s got a full time day job, right. So it’s like, people don’t understand what that really means. I think the words community project have been thrown around so many times. But if people actually knew what the hell it took to just manage a community project and actually get stuff done in a community project, they would like go out of their minds. Oh, just for the project. management standpoint?

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
Well, I mean, that’s what a lot of people really don’t get to select the open source community, something that a lot of people have no idea that how much open source and free software they use. And they rely on every day, even services such as this one that we’re using, majority of it is built upon free and open source software. And the thing is, is that these companies pay individuals to work some of their time to contribute to them for features and things they need. And when you break away from company, paying for that, it is truly a community like truly open or truly just individuals running it. People don’t understand that we got bills to pay and things like that. They don’t they don’t really grasp that. Just because you write code, they think that you’re going to get what Silicon Valley pays. No, that’s not how it works. Someone has to foot the bill. And if someone’s not footing the bill for that your time is completely free, and that’s fine. But there are also you got responsibilities. You know what I mean? You got you got mortgages, you got car nodes, you got everything else, just like ever Anyone else does. But the thing is, is like, you know, you hope and strive to get to the point where you don’t have to worry about that. But at the same time, you’re still writing software. And if you’re doing it for free, it can be cumbersome. Because you still have to work a day job to put food on the table and to be able to survive. And rent ain’t cheap. It ain’t free either. You know what I’m saying? Like, depending on where you are. So I think that’s also a misconception people have is like, Oh, I know, somebody is an open source developer. And they get paid, you know, to do this. And it’s like, Yeah, but they’re being paid by a company because they use that software. So they need a contributor at their company to push the features they need and want. And I think that that’s a lot of times where the confusion sets in because in cryptocurrency, it’s, you know, we look at that as centralization. But in reality, when you look at like free and open source software, that’s just the way of the game. You know what I mean? Like, outside of like, coin x or whatever, you look at a coin that’s mainly company controlled, because they’re paying all the devs and they have the resources, whether they Ico or not, which I’m not a fan of the Ico world, but regardless, you know, they’re being funded. And open source canoe projects, for example, it can be very hard to be funded. So a lot of times companies are the people who put people in charge of maintaining that software because they use it. And so I think like you said, the community driven projects and community community ran projects, people don’t realize this, how many man hours are human hours, I should say that takes it takes a lot, because you have to have project management scopes. You know, what features are going to add? Who can deliver that feature on time life happens. So if you only got like a team of two or three developers, what’s going to happen if someone gets sick, ran over by a bus, whatever, you know, you take all that into consideration. And people often overlook all that.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
And I think even from a project management standpoint, when you’re dealing with, you know, truly, you know, community driven open source software is that people can be really flaky. I mean, it’s not it’s just there’s a lot of flaky people. That’s again, Sounds great. Yeah, I want to work. I think people get really excited about being a part of something, and then they don’t show up. It’s like, Oh, well, this really is work. Okay. It’s, it sounds great. But, you know, ultimately, there’s needs to be some work done. And I think a lot of people, it’s almost like they like the LARP that they do open source can, you know, contributions, when they’re just like, you know, and they don’t show up. And I think that’s kind of frustrating to on the community program. And

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
I think you also have to look at it from another standpoint to like, say, for example, I can use this for my own personal So say, for example, you’re, you have a project, you’ve outlined a scope, you’ve built all these documentation. And then next thing, you know, you end up in some snafus over intellectual property of some other code. So now all of a sudden, you’re having a halt, what you’re able to push even for open source, because you don’t want that intellectual property to then get compromised because there may be a dispute over when it was Britton who technically owns it, that kind of thing. And that happened to me before and happens to a lot of people and like thankfully now that stuff is is behind me. But you know people are very greedy and especially in Silicon Valley which I’m so glad I’m out of now by the way, so I’m a I’m an ex Valley guy and no longer going back to that but you know the valley is is one of those things is shit I gotta handle some of the ones I got I got a wasp one..

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Well be safe. Don’t don’t get killed by the wasps. Is that like a murder Hornet kind of thing? Or

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
There’s two of them in here. I didn’t realize that I’m allergic to those fucking things.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Well, don’t get killed by the murder Hornet.

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
Yeah, they’re not murder hornets. They’re just typical South Mississippi, fucking, big as hell. So there’s just gonna be a painful thing. But anyway, yeah, I mean, like, you know, some of the things that people don’t get is that software is coming. complicated, especially when you’re working a day job, and you’re trying to do open source contributions, who owns it, depending on contractual agreements and things like that, and then also what state you’re operating in, because a lot of people don’t understand that some states honor non competes, some don’t even have your software. In some states, there’s precedents where, you know, they haven’t had much of a tech industry. So say, for example, you write software that just does something on the network, you may be in violation of your very own invention agreement that you signed on your employer, even though your employer verbally may tell you it’s okay. It’s still problematic, because it depends on how well that now verbally agreed upon project that you’ve kicked or that you pushed out. Now, if that takes off your company, or your employer may decide they want it, you see what I mean? Anyway, I’m like, that’s a complicated sector that people really don’t get into. Because unless you work in the industry, you really don’t know so like in the crypto space. You have a lot of people who read up on some bootcamp stuff and done a few you know, playgrounds. They think they could write code Professionally, and they don’t realize that it’s a lot more complicated than just putting together a couple of tutorials. You know what I mean? Like, there’s more to it. You have product spec, you have ideas, you have to look at longevity, you have to look at scaling, you have to look at a number of factors that boil down to your design. And if you’ve never implemented something in production, or if you’ve never had real users, then how are you supposed to know how to construct that? You see what I mean?

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Absolutely. Um, privacy. One of the things that we’re seeing right now..

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
Hold on, let me let me kill this fucking thing.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Okay.

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
Am I prepared? Oh, me.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
No worries, man. It’s all good. All right. So we, before the break, we were talking a little bit about privacy and the state of privacy in the digital world, where we are right now. So tell me a little bit like or at least tell the audience a little bit about what you see is the state of privacy right now. Just in general, what would you say? where we are as a culture with our online presences right now. Where is privacy?

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
Privacy is dying very quickly. And it’s all being derived from, you know, a lot of that’s coming from companies like Amazon, Google, and others who are pushing smart home. Uh, you know, Siri, even Apple is guilty of it. But but a lot of these features that are nice to have end up becoming compromising situations for the individual. And you know, what I mean by that is like a lot of very just like Snowden. And people will say, Oh, I ain’t got nothing Hi, great, just because you don’t have anything to say, do you not need your freedom of speech? And then they’re like, Oh, well, it’s not quite the same and say, Well, yeah, it is. Because think about it like this. What’s your last for your social your mother’s maiden name? And they’re like, Well, I’m not going to give you that, well, you have something to hide. Otherwise, then you would be fine with giving me that information. So why are you not okay with giving me that information? But instead, you’re willing to give a company Oh, well, this company protects that data. We know that’s a fallacy. companies get hacked all the time. compromised individual employees that work at these companies do nefarious things such as stalking, listening on individuals and do things that are that are, you know, beyond their reach and scope of their job. And we know that for under percent fact, like, you know what I mean? Like it’s nothing new. And what what I’m seeing today is that people are just okay with a just like this, Google and Apple, you know, integration. That’s why I told people to stop updating their phones. Because they’re, you know, the future patch releases will have that framework in there. And tell me, tell me about that. What do you do? Let’s step back a little bit.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
What do you mean not update phones? What’s going on with the updates?

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
Well, so for example, updates are always dangerous for automatic updates, you should really try to make sure that you understand what update is, before you run it just like in Bitcoin or anything else. You need to know what the software that you’re installing on your device does. And the problem with proprietary software is that’s hard to do. Because companies aren’t going to release the secret sauce. Then on the other token, when you start looking at Android, you have an issue where you know you haven’t OEM manufacturers who released stuff that’s not public either. There are drivers on certain phones, I can’t list brands because my work with them in the past that have features that aren’t necessarily noted or properly able to be found unless you’re under an NDA with them, in which case you can’t even speak about it post working on it. You have trackable software, you have things that can enable features on your phone such as your mic, camera, things like that, that can turn them on or off, or the cases Apple Google, as you know, agreement, where these future updates, they’re going to allow the tracing apps to work for contact tracing who you came in contact with. But in reality, they can already do that with your mZ and they can already do that with your cell phone. The problem is that’s not presented in a clean data way. And there’s a subpoena that’s required to get that information per person, which adds a hurdle for law enforcement. At the same time, there’s pros and cons to that the good side is that oh well, we’ll be able to distinguish Who came in contact with infected person? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that’s great. That’s good to some level. But at what risk? Because again, just because this feature is enabled for this one time event, does it ever get turned off look at the Patriot Act looked at anything else, like we never regain what we had, once we lose it. That’s that’s not how privacy works. And, you know, the dangerous part is, is that now with biometrics and things like that a lot of people are reliant on that on their phones. You know, these companies have the ability to access those enclaves so long as their application is signed. And so literally, they can do approvals for updates on devices for certain feature sets, things like that, or auto updates or module specifics, things like that. And the dangerous part about that is that very slippery slope, because yes, already not trustworthy now. But just think about it once you start adding in who there come contact with. Now you can start doing real correlation attacks to figure out who these people serve. Friends are, who their family members are things like that. And like I’ve discussed it before, that’s dangerous, especially because of people like Eva from the Electronic Frontier Foundation and others who’ve talked about stalker where now you’re presenting an API for stalker where basically, the government’s are going to be able to use, but just remember, just because the government has access to it doesn’t mean no one else will. I says, We’ve found that out before too. Once you open Pandora’s box, it’s open. And the risk there is the individual privacy and the idea that I have the protection to do what I want without fear of retribution. I should not be afraid of who I come in contact with, and neither should you. However, under the guise of security or the idea that people are willing to sacrifice those liberties, and there’s options at best, those that are willing to sacrifice freedom and liberties for the idea of security deserve neither.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
So government using this for I would argue that contact At least the no contact tracing can be analog as well, not just digital is one of the things that, you know, the countries that have, you know, gone through and started getting COVID under control. They tested early and they did contact tracing, and then they isolated people all the way from their houses. That’s how they’ve been able to do this. Now, I don’t disagree with you. I think that people be able to access everything about you digitally remotely without permission or without a warrant is an issue because it will be abused by somebody, whether it’s a government agent, or just through government ineptitude, a hacker will get access to it or a foreign power could get access to a seems like there’s a massive security issue or multiple security issues based on them. When you can still do contact tracing manually and analog which I think is the more appropriate way I think this is the way you should handle that but I don’t even like electronic voting. So that’s just me.

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
I make a big stink about that stuff. You know, like electronic systems are prone to vulnerabilities and problems because they’re written by people because people are prone to that, you know?

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Well, I think ultimately, a lot of people that are making these decisions about implementing these kind of surveillance technologies, even though it sounds good on its face, I think a lot of the people that are doing it one, at least in the government side, one, maybe don’t understand the ramifications long term and the potential security risks, but I think a lot of them on the other hand also might be getting bribed, because the companies that do produce these things, that’s gonna be you know, some good corporate welfare going their way, as well. So I think there’s a lot of concern about that. And I guess the question is, what do we do about it? What can an individual like me, what can I do about that right now what can I do to help make my my footprint safer on the privacy level?

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
Learning good offside, but also like, like, I started off with All series and haven’t posted because I’ve been dealing with some some matters but not a return this weekend on use tools but understand how to use them properly. For example, you know, keep a stark separation of your online identities if you’re using an account for shitposting, for example, and you want it purely on that, don’t merge that with your personal accounts. Keep that separate, use separate devices use multiple devices, and especially now you can get clean devices that are literally untraceable because of COVID. You can exploit a situation where you can go in and legally buy devices with cash, that there’s no traceable record that you bought it because you can go and fully mask covered up, no one knows who you are. And it’s not even been an eyelash whereas, you know, back in January, if I was to do that people will report me to the FBI. You see what I mean? Right now people need to understand that there are attack surfaces for people and then there are attack surfaces that open up for being able to fight routine your privacy, you just need to understand what your goal is. For example, I have separation of my, you know, my personal accounts and my older accounts and certain accounts that I do things with in regards to certain certain projects I work on. My aliases are not ever connected in any way, I don’t even use the same devices, not even the same emails never even touch the same GPG keys. Neither one of them have each other’s public keys in the key chains, things like that. Those are important to understand. Because if you have a traceable link, and especially in cryptography, which a lot of people don’t really understand, I’ll put it this way. Cryptography can be a great tool to protect you, but it can also sync your battleship. Understand that if you have cryptographically sound methods like GPG, and you signed something with a GPG key, that’s as good as saying this was me. This is my digital fingerprint. So anything else it’s just digital fingerprint is important to understand that wherever that may be. That can be used to correlate that you are that person. The biggest instance of this would have to be the frosty@frosty key. You’re familiar with frosty right?

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
I’m not.

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
Okay. So there was this guy, you may have heard of him, Ross Ulbricht? So, he used the frosty key, frosty@frosty to sign the Silk Road login page, but he also used it in Stack Overflow question. Now, do you? Yes. So you have to really understand that that is as good as saying, This is me. I have proven this key. And so that’s dangerous. Everyone have to understand that that is one of many bad opsec steps that he took. But that’s one major opposite No, no, never have keys, never sign keys and never use them from accounts that are associated with who you are. If you’re doing anything that you don’t want people to know about. I don’t judge people. I don’t care. Cryptography can’t be gay cubed. Neither can encryption. It shouldn’t But it will be used for good or bad. Same thing with a clear announcing thing with everything right? And so like you, as an individual, you need to understand and make a decision on what you’re willing to allow people to know and what you’re not willing to allow people to know. And then from there, you derive a toolkit that makes sense for your exposure or what you’re willing as a comfortable exposure rate, or limit in this case. So like me, certain things people know about me, a lot of things people don’t know about me, and I choose to never disclose that. And the reason why is because I believe in not doxxing people in the sense of like, when people get petty on the internet, they like, here’s their address, or blah, blah, blah. I think that’s stupid, that’s also really ignorant. And that showcases that, you know, they themselves don’t care about operational security of others, and they’re endangering people by doing that. Now, I’m a firm believer, if you can’t take some shit on the internet, and you need to dock someone to get back at them. You probably need to grow the fuck off. And you know, that’s a growing trend on Twitter right now is doxing people and exposing personal information about people like where they live, things like that. There’s a lot of people who you know, that we don’t know their past, what if they have an ex that they’ve been hiding from for years now all of a sudden, they’re easy access to that information. You just open them up to be personally endangered. Because of your, you know, your ignorance and your anger and your emotions overwhelmed you to not think with logic and reason. And instalay One of the things I like to tell people is Be very careful also on who you expose what to remember, public channels are public. So if you say I’m on Twitter, expect it to be documented and archived. Because while Twitter has policies on API gathering of what can be stored offline, all this other stuff, don’t think for a second that there’s not people who have archives of every tweet that’s ever been made. There are and it’s constantly being analyzed things like that. Piano style autography is being used to confirm who’s tweeting in certain, you know, certain vocal stuffs, that kind of thing to be able to trace who someone is. And the risk of that is, is that these companies are selling that data to analyze who is someone or who could be someone’s on their account. Same thing with like, you know, the Satoshi man on all these things, all of those boil down to operational security, and what people are willing to disclose. And the dangerous part is, is that as an individual, you have to make that choice. And that choice can be very hard if you’re on uninitiated into what it means. Does that make sense? Like, I can’t go and tell my uncle, hey, you’re about your opsec when he has no idea, but he also doesn’t have a public facing anything other than his phone number associated with his business card. You see what I mean? Like, for him, his operational security is a much different risk and it’s more in person than it is in a digital sense. So you have to divide that you have to look at. Okay, here’s what I want to do. Here’s how I would like to be. And then you have to figure out what works to make that a reality. And the dangerous part is, is there’s really no guidebook on that. Like they there’s not like a questionnaire you can fill out and be like, Well, here’s the tools you should use, you know what I’m saying? You know, I mean, because if you had a poll that did that kind of stuff, or a survey, literally that person running the survey would be collecting data on the individual pushing the buttons.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
So what are a good set of tools for people to protect their privacy with?

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
First thing I would suggest is everyone should learn PGP whether you’re dealing with your mom and grandmother, your best friend, whatever, PGP for email as a must. And the reason why is because he keeps snooping guys from looking plus, we’re using PGP with like iCloud or Gmail, which a lot of people have, or you know, it allows you to have some level of control of the security and you don’t have to necessarily upload your puppy to a key server. You can give a public key like I can give you my key through a Private Channel, the uninsured Whatever, there’s no trace that that transaction ever occurred between us that you have my public key, but we can communicate and encrypted email cryptographically sound emails back and forth without having the fear of Google or someone else listening now, they will read it, but it’ll be all encrypted. And the thing is, is that when you do that, that’s that’s one layer. Now, a lot of people say, Why don’t really use email, you use email for more important things than use your text messages. Would you agree or disagree on that?

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
I would agree.

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
So if your first step or your important things is that you’re using PGP or GPG, or new GPG or open PGP open GPG, whatever iteration of a you know, generally, pretty good privacy or good new Privacy Guard. Um, once you would see there is that Okay, first up, the important stuff unlocking down. I now have asked companies to use PGP a lot of companies actually do have it set up They use PGP or public private keys in private, and they’re willing to use it with with outward facing customers. You just have to request it. And the more people that were requested, the more people will use it. And that’s important, because that’s the important channels, right? So so like if you covered that ground, cool. Make sure you don’t disclose certain email addresses with those keys to other people that you don’t want to know or associated with their email address. For example, if you’re using you know, an iCloud account, it’s probably not a good idea to use that same iCloud account if it’s tied to, you know, your Apple Store account. Because if someone wants to really screw you over, and they know enough personal information about you and you use proper research, they use security questions that are easily guessable because they know you. That’s the security like that’s an attack surface. That’s how a lot of celebrities got into trouble. But it’s also why you see those things on Facebook asking what’s your favorite color, where you grew up? Those kind of things. Those are information gathering tools that people are using to be able to reset your information when and if they need it. So next step is use a good messaging service, a signal signal for your phone calls. So you go for your text messages. And if people don’t use signal ask them to it’s not hard, it’s easy to set up works on all your devices. I mean, it’s really simple. You know what I mean? Like, and those two pieces right there cover a large attack surface for most people. Not to mention, you know, you’re enforcing that these people have you as a contact in their phone. And you can use you know, a burner phone was signal, which I highly recommend. You can get a burner phone right now at Walmart or insert any United States retailer that you can go and fully mass fully clothed, and buy, you know, a starter SIM card and a phone and literally be able to do that. The next step is that if you really want to stay on that hardcore version, only happy Who are important contact you on that number, having another disposable phone for other businesses or whatever the hell you’re doing. But also remember smartphones are dangerous. Don’t be open and links. Don’t be open in your email PDF attachments and stuff like that because there’s malware in that stuff. Yeah, yeah. You know exactly what to say. I don’t have I don’t mean physically because I don’t have any phones on me right now for GPS reasons. But yeah, that’s a house. But yeah, there’s other on the flip phone, man. I mean, I agree. I have I have several of them right now. And like I said, it’s, again, you don’t have nothing now I but you may not want to expose yourself to everyone knowing everything about you. So like I said, start with the email service signal. And then for your browsing habits. I would recommend Tor but most people don’t ever listen to me when I say use Tor properly and what that means. And basically what I mean by that is don’t have Tor open if you have Firefox, Chrome and Safari also Open on your device. Does that make sense? Because you’re basically broadcast and everyone that you have Tor running. And they can see that the cookie information is being shared can see that, oh, service providers, not just your ISP, but the company’s login to So say, for example, you have your Gmail account logged in through your browser, and you’re turning around and going to Google, they’re seeing the same traffic come from the same IP, they’re going to know that there’s distinguishable session IDs and things like that, especially if you’re logged in on both, which is a bad note. Also, resizing Tor is dangerous because you can look at the packets and see whether or not there’s been a resize. So if you can visibly see someone on your network, you can tell who’s using it, that kind of thing. Um, and there’s a lot of dangerous stuff like if people really want to understand how dangerous the world is learn about cookies, and learn about them really well because the web is dangerous. Cookies can do a lot. They tell a company a lot. They can provide a lot of information. They provide a lot of stuff. to advertisers, as well as the company who you may be using their services. And so, you know, the hard part is, like I said, there’s really no easy guide for this kind of stuff. You have to really understand technology before you can protect yourself from it. And, you know, you’re in tech, so am I. And that’s why most of us in tech are almost Luddites in today’s time, because we don’t want any smart home. We don’t want any of that garbage. No.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Well, it’s kind of funny because like last year, we’ve been doing some remodeling around our house and trying to find a low tech thermostat. For instance, we put in a new sprinkler system last year, everything is Wi Fi enabled now. And it was funny like we put in a pretty you know, I’m not gonna go on all the details but our landscaping but this crazy smart, you know, sprinkler controller, we pulled the module Cuz I don’t want someone to be able to hack my sprinkler. And then you know the doorbells with the ring thing where that’s like the only kind of doorbell you can get almost. And I’m trying to find some low tech thing and when in a lot of things that in our house are very modern, right? I mean, we’re, we’re, we like tech. But I also for the same reason I just don’t see opening up all these ways for people to come into my house and monitor things or be able to worse to hack things. That can be bad. And so you’re right, I am very Luddite ish. Depending on what the tech is on some things I’m very tech forward and tech savvy. And other things. I’m just like, No, I don’t want that in my house. But it’s interesting, but I have my one of my cars that I use for work has like manual, doesn’t even have electric windows. It’s got roll up windows.

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
I mean, like I said, You know, I used to work in IoT as well. Um, and the amount of air information is collected on the individuals running the servers. It should be criminal and is dangerous because, you know, it’s under the guise Oh, well, this makes your life easier. This allows you to do that. Yes, but at what cost? Like I don’t know about you, but like, say for example, I’m having a personal conversation with someone about my health. I don’t necessarily want Alexa to fucking know about it. Like I’m sorry, my life we’ve all the time as well. Like, you know, you write software that you know you’ve written software before that’s used in Alexa or this that or the other and I’m like, yeah, and they’re like, why don’t you use those things? Because I fucking know what they do. Like Like when you when you build it, you have a and you work on these things. You have a real understanding about the dangers right? majority of society isn’t involved in tech enough to understand it. Like you show like someone Echo Dot you show them a you know, with a few little words I can, I can control your lights cool. They see that as a value. They don’t know that it’s listening. Every couple The seconds to look for a trigger word to do something, they don’t know that they don’t realize how that works. And then that information is being sent to the cloud. And they also have no idea what cloud means. But cloud is just basically a distributed network of computers, meaning is someone else’s computer, and it stores all this information, that information is being properly parsed on a regular basis for various things advertisement, what to push to you what you might be interested in buying, because they want your money. And then like that, that again, goes back to, you know, I hate to say this, going back to the ring, Amazon’s made deals with local police, law enforcement to allow the work to someone else’s ring. So if your neighbor has a ring and it’s pointing to your house, they can literally just walk over or contact your neighbor and gain access to it without ever physically going there to look at it. And without ever having to disclose you know me. Oh, you were you Trying to hire you doing selling drugs? No. But I don’t need to know when somebody comes to my house and leaves. You know what I mean? Like, why should my neighbor be giving that information out about me? You see what I mean? Like there are pros and cons to this. Yes, it’s great helping solving a crime or heinous crime. But you also have to understand that there are a lot of people who really don’t want other people knowing what the hell they’re doing, because they believe in their right to privacy. Like me, I don’t fucking want people to know that I showed up. You know, got home at four o’clock the other morning from a night out and drinking. I don’t need them to know that. They see me cool. They can make fun of me, but they didn’t. I don’t need the police to know that I got home at four in the morning being dropped off with a Lyft or an Uber You see what I’m saying? Or that someone gave me a ride or that I used a cab because I decided to pay cash. And, you know, I just told them the general direction to drop me off in that kind of thing. Because you’d have to pay attention to that stuff. Like it’s nothing you haven’t been But you also don’t want the world to know what you’re doing. You see what I mean?

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Well, I think a lot of thing that people don’t understand is that it’s it’s not necessarily that one data point, but the the cumulative data points about you, that can be used against, you know what I’m saying? It’s the way they can build profiles, that not only, you know, on the surface, it sounds great, because, you know, they’re just trying to market to you, right? Well, okay, they’re just trying to market to me. But the thing is, a lot of these people, these data brokers will sell this information to the highest bidder and they don’t care who gets it, whether, you know, it’s just, you know, some kind of retailer or whether or not it’s a foreign, you know, spy agency friends,

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
Or what if it’s somebody that you have, you know, protection order against, and all of a sudden they formed an LLC in a state, and they turn around and request that data to buy now they contract this person that they’re not supposed to be tracking and legally, there’s There’s no way of knowing that. Do you see what I mean? That that goes back to the stalker where we are opening ourselves up to a world and it’s already here. But people can curve this now curb this now where they can eliminate what companies know about them. And they should, and they should take it very seriously. Because, again, you may not have anything to hide per se because you’re not doing anything illegal. But most people commit several felonies a day and they don’t realize it, and it’s petty stuff, but they’re still crimes. But if you know there’s nothing for them, there’s no visible proof that it was done or whatever. Then like a heart nobody really cares. But the reality is, is that those can be used against someone in the court of law for something else to gain leverage. And you know, oh well I pay for my music and stuff. Cool. Who else has a bunch of downloaded mp3? I know I do. From the 90s 2000s. Right everybody. Download mp3 is torn to this, that the other those are felonies, though those are those are punishable crimes by finds. And while it seems silly like, oh, they’re not going to do that they do. But if you open up the door where Hey, you have reasonable cause to go and get a warrant for this person now that they’ve been using their devices, or you can prove they use their devices to do something. questionably legal. Guess what, now you’ve opened up the doorway for them to look into everything else you’re doing, whether or not you want them to. And also remember, this is something I’ve been having to educate a lot of people, I metrics is not protected under the Fourth Amendment, but your password is. So on your phone. If you haven’t used a smartphone, don’t use a thumb. Don’t use your thumbprint scanner. Use a fucking password. Don’t use a facial scanner, use a password, because that is protected. But because of the fact that your facial expression and stuff isn’t literally someone can get your mug shot and unlock your fucking phone. There’s nothing that can stop them from doing so because it’s not protected. Your DNA is not protected those types of things, including your thumbprint, all of that information can and will be used against you, regardless of what you’re doing is right or wrong? Do you really need law enforcement to know that you and your wife got in a fight two weeks ago? Do you see what I mean? Like, I’m fucked over. You didn’t close the toilet lid or something, right? Like, you know, yeah, two o’clock in the morning. Do you see what I mean? Do they really need to know that information? And they should.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
So what do you think about social media platforms in general? Is there can you use any of those social media platforms safely? From a privacy standpoint, you think?

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
Twitter probably about the safest if you use the web app only and you keep the separation, your personal and everything else, but then again, once you remove the personal, you get into that ballgame of whether or not you keep alias separations that kind of stuff, you know what I mean? Like you have to look at it, what are you willing to expose to others? And what is your comfortable risk level? Because each person is different on that right your risk level and my risk level are much different than say a completely a non account who is on for various reason. including but not limited to legalities country of where they may be, how they’re getting to Twitter, what they’re doing. All of that is just part of that formula. And each person is different. And like I said, there’s really no checklist. It becomes a personal decision of what they’re willing to accept what they’re willing to do. And Facebook is not safe. Obviously Twitter really isn’t mastodons pretty good. Outside of that, I don’t even have a Facebook. I have Twitter. That’s my only social media, by the way, and Reddit and 4chan and Reddit I really don’t even use but but 4chan I do, but 4chan kind of enforces the anonymous thing by most except for IP address, obviously, to track what you’re doing. If you do something wrong, like posting shit, that’s illegal, that kind of stuff. But outside of that, you know, if you really want the closest thing to unbridled social media fortune is probably going to be hit. And that’s I mean, that’s the closest to us. censorship free platform we have you can say and do just about whatever you want to on there. Whereas Twitter, you can’t even talk about COVID you can’t do certain things otherwise they think deep platforming. Hell if you make the wrong joke about people, they’ll be platforming my buddy carbon. Got the platform last year earlier this year because of gym friend memes. You know what I mean? And all that mean, and all of that stuff goes

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
That was hysterical, by the way.

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
Yeah, there it was. But But literally, you know, instead of someone laughing it off. Instead, they chose to go the DMCA route and try to get lawyers and stuff involved and trying to make things much more complicated.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Well, it’s interesting, like, my wife and I have been early adopters of, you know, social media. I’ve been on Twitter for a long time. I think we got our accounts when we first you know, they first started up, and it’s interesting. My wife and I, we have four kids. And we have never put our kids names or pictures on any social media plan. Ever. And this was a conscious decision we made a long time ago. Because I didn’t want to violate their privacy.

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
I gotta take care of it. go nowhere.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
So I was saying, I was just saying that we don’t ever put our we’ve never put our kids you know, we never doctor kids, we never put their photo online ever, when they were little and never put their names on there. And at the time, we, you know, this is going back in time now, but they didn’t really have photo recognition, facial recognition tech back then. But we said, you know, just out of respect for them, and you know, just creepers in general. I don’t want to put their faces out there. But looking hindsight, my kids don’t have any of that data out there right now. And I always assume

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
Your kids are gonna be sovereign man. Like I hate to say that. But like if they keep on that, right, like kudos to you because a lot of parents don’t do that. And You know what, kudos to you because and I know sounds stupid a lot of people hate me for this because I’m not a parent but I’ll say this much. I don’t believe kids should ever be on a social media platform at all until they’re 18. And the reason why is because at that point this the state everyone else treats them as an adult. But at that moment they can make a decision what they want to do and it should be left up to that their information should not be out there pictures should not be up there. Birthday should not be up there things like that. And the reason why is because allow that individual to choose what they’re going to do about their privacy. And people you know, I’m going to say this and piss off some SJW is if you don’t mind, is it they want to treat the gender movement, all this stuff like that, right? tree privacy the same fucking way. Don’t put your kid shit out there until they’re adult enough to make a fucking decision. And if you want to if you know people may get upset about it, people may or may not like that, that approach. But I think that’s the only respectable thing to do to an adult is allow the adult To decide what they want to do. And believe it or not, I think a lot more people will be less likely to be using social media, if given the opportunity in that way, versus just seeing their parents constantly on the stuff. I mean, hell, the other day, I went into the store, and I seen like an eight year old on their phone on their Facebook account and their mother on Facebook. And I find that to be very dangerous, and not only for, you know, the kids safety, but also, what information is that kid providing about his family that they are? It’s family that they don’t necessarily the family doesn’t necessarily want to be disclosed and even know about?

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Yeah, they’re not even paying attention.

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
Yeah. Because the phones, the babysitter now, it used to be TV. The worst thing you had to deal with whether or not the kids were watching Cinemax or skinemax, after dark or HBO after dark, right? You know, like that was like the worst. They were watching scrambled porn or something. Now kids have full access to everything they want. And you know, like YouTube and everything like that is the new babysitter. And the dangerous part is is like I’ve watched Some of the stuff that might have used watch before, I would never allow like, we would have been hitting the back of our heads growing up, how do we try to watch something like that on TV? And you know, it’s like eight. And when you start looking at that that’s dangerous, dangerous as hell, because where do they draw the line? Because they’re not they’re not mature enough to understand what is content creation for financial gain, versus what is reality? Do you see what I mean? I mean, that’s, that’s dangerous territory there for them.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
So, you know, I, my wife and I are very doxxed like on social media, because we do use it because we’re kind of out there and his personality. So I mean, but we do it. Why would you know, our eyes wide open, right? We knew that going in that we made that, that choice consciously.

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
And you accepted that risk though. That’s the thing you accepted that you understood what you were going to do, and you did it. And that’s fair. That’s the approach you should take. Understand what you’re doing. About to disclose, but only Don’t get upset if more comes out. Does that make sense?

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Yeah, but I always tell people look, but you rarely see me post very many things that are personal nature, like where I’m going that I’m on vacation. And you know, if I do post a picture of something of where I’ve been, it’s already it’s usually after the fact, after I’ve already back home from a security stamp. I do think about those kind of things. But we actually homeschool our kids. And we limit screen time. We don’t even have cable TV in our house at all. We don’t have satellite. So in some ways, we’re very tech forward because my kids are taking computer programming classes. And they’re very digitally, you know, they’re very adept.

But on the other hand, they’re learning..

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
JavaScript Please tell me they’re not.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
No scratch and some other stuff. But, but I think what uh, the other thing is though, like, but we have like, we didn’t give our oldest term First phone until she was in college. Now she started college while she was in high school. So but we said, well, you’re on campus on a college campus, I’m assuming you’re mature enough to handle a phone at that point, and but on the other hand, like our other younger three, we don’t none of them have their own phone, none of them for have social media accounts at all. And then we actually bought a special lockdown phone from gab wireless of all things, which is a super super lockdown phone that we use as a checkout phone for our kids, because none of the kids own their own phone and it doesn’t allow photos. It doesn’t allow surfing on the internet. It’s all locked down. We just do. It’s like Oh, you’re going somewhere, take the phone with you. And this is the phone. And so my wife and I So on one hand, we’re involved with crypto, you know, we’re, you know, very out there on social media. On the other hand, we got our kids very locked down. So I mean, it’s a weird kind of balance, but I think I guess going forward, which I was recommend especially other parents is it is a balance and there is nuance to it. You can have kids can have access to a phone, but I don’t allow my kids to have TVs in their room either. Right? I don’t have a TV in my room. My bedroom for instance.

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
There is nothing wrong with that like. There’s nothing wrong with no TVs in the rooms. Like I’m a firm believer that like, I don’t like TVs in the room, mainly because you find yourself watching garbage. And like I do, there’s really only four classifications commercials now. prescription medications, insurance, and every now and then car commercial Come on, and then advertisements for other channels in their network. That’s it. That’s the four architecture commercials you see today. I mean, the other day, I literally watch, I was running. I was running a compiler was compiling a large project. And normally it takes about 47 minutes 15 minutes to build. So I’m sitting there waiting. I was watching TV in the background just to see I took note, I took note, in one hour, there was 17 prescription pill, commercials.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Wow.

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
And one in one hour of TV viewing. And that’s ridiculous when you start thinking about that, how often these breaks are, but like most of the TV is just advertising. But if you look at the Internet, most of the internet is to, unless you’re using proper, you know, upset tools, such as ad tracking blocks, you know, that kind of stuff, or using piehole at home, which I highly recommend, also that is a good step forward, people are looking for something a very inexpensive way of providing a pretty good ad determines piehole um, you know, you get a Raspberry Pi set it up, it takes, it’s a good weekend project. If you’re, if you have kids, and they’re 1415 years old, 13 years old or something, especially during this, you know, all this. You can spend time with them, teaching them how to set this up, you know what I mean? And like those, those are just some fun projects that you can Make something however it can provide a layer of protection for your operational security, both for you and your family.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Like VPNs. Yeah, let’s get into VPNs. Real quick, what do you think of VPN?

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
Alright, so recently I wrote a thread about this VPN or a touch and go thing. Here’s why a VPN at home is kind of a moot point and dangerous. Here’s why. It’s dangerous because your ISP can correlate the traffic explosions that you’re doing things such as, but not limited to torrenting. And they can see your only VPN and during torrenting, they can literally tell you tell definitively based on a traffic burst that you’re using a VPN to access that and to use that much bandwidth. Like they can profile the traffic. It’s easy to see the other problem of VPN, one of the biggest problems is where the country of location did they run their business because what laws are do they have to adhere to specifically for subpoenas and law enforcement in the country you abide in. So for example, if they’re in Panama, they’re okay if they’re in Geneva, Switzerland, they’re definitely okay. Because Geneva typically just as fuck off. And that’s where you have to really do your research on it right? You can also set up your own VPN. But the problem is, is what a lot of people don’t understand about setting up your own VPN, if you have it at home, is that if you VPN into home while you’re gone, you’re using your home’s public addresses associated to your ISP account. So if you do something stupid, guess where it’s going to come back to us on VPN, bro? Yeah, but you’re using the public IP or just your fucking hours, which you pay for with a subscription to an ISP that have all your KYC information. I’m wondering where that subpoena is gonna go. Like so. And the problem is, is when you use a trust that you use a service or like AWS or something like that to host your own you again are using KYC information to be able to host that service, and then again can be problematic for law enforcement or from that for you because of law enforcement. I don’t care what people do on the internet, I really don’t you do you, but at the same time, you have to know how to protect yourself and VPNs are a great solution. You just need to understand the attack surface for law enforcement. And you know, people say, Oh, well, I’m not doing anything illegal. I just log into bid Max and engage, right? Well, that’s technically illegal under the United States law. That’s why bit Mex doesn’t offer the service to the United States. Boom. Oh, shit. I never realized that. Well, yeah, those are problems. People don’t really grasp some of the..

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Like online casinos. Same thing. Really. A lot of people don’t understand that it’s illegal for an American to access online casinos, even if the online casinos are abroad.

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
Yeah. And again, there’s a lot of services People just don’t really get the legalities up because it’s not. It’s not common knowledge. Like, for example, you know, for a long time it was seen as illegal to use certain types of encryption still is stolen as there’s a legal encryption, you can’t export software, if it utilizes it from the United States. And people are like what I’m like, yeah, there are certain algorithms that you can’t export software from here to sell abroad, because it uses that encryption, because it’s deemed as weaponized. You know, like there’s a lot of stuff from a technical legal perspective that people don’t get, because there’s also not a guidebook on it. You know what I mean? Like, there’s not like there’s an entire set of case law, the Electronic Frontier Foundation and others, including the Tor project and various other organizations that try their best to educate the public. But the problem is, is that there are so many cases, there’s so much that changes on a rapid pace. And you know, people ask me how often technologies You changes. And I tell them what you thought was a good idea today. By the end of the next week, it will have already been that’s last week’s news. There are better ways better methods to do that implementation. Now, you know, there are better tools, they’re better frameworks better this better that there are libraries. And it changes so quickly, because as we have more people become developers, it progresses. So because of that law is slow to catch up. But as these case by cases, set these precedents for, like, you know, VPN laws and things like that, and what can be done legally and illegally, you have to run the gamut of where does that slope end? And where do we, as a society, start fighting back? You know, I mean, our government is quick to say, hey, you can’t do certain things on the internet. But I mean, meanwhile, project playpen. Are you familiar with Operation playpen? I’m not. Oh, our government ran a child pornography site for about six weeks. On the Tor network, while running paid advertisement on torch, which is the search engine for Yeah, for Tor. And then people were like, Oh my God, why they do that because they were trying to, they had seize control the server. And they were trying to gain all the users and getting IP addresses and trying to utilize correlation attacks because they were controlling a majority of the exit nodes, things like that. And they were trying to be able to dachsies people so that they could serve them subpoenas. We were like, Oh, that’s great that they’re doing that, you know, the blocking key point. And I agree, I’m anti HIV because kids have no say so most of this shit abuse and a bunch of other things. There is a huge problem with the way they went about it though, because what’s to stop them from basically running these types of attacks, without the public’s knowledge and then claim someone else ran the service? Because that’s illegal. It’s illegal for you to run a honeypot doing such a thing. Why? Is it legal for our government to do you see what I mean? Like unless let’s, let’s say, What do you mean that? Well, let’s say it was drug markets, I insert, whatever. Now all of a sudden, it’s okay for them to do this because of the the guise of security, just like going back to, it’s okay for them to do contracts racing for the idea of security, it’s okay for them to invade you, or to compromise an entire system that’s designed to protect people from oppression by creating more oppressive methods to be used. You see what I’m saying?

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Well, I think that’s why we need to be Villa, you know, vigilant because whatever power government gets, it never sees it, once it, you know, never goes away. And I always tell people that that, you know, you have to, you know, be careful when you give government more power. And it’s, it’s complicated, you know, sometimes, especially when you got, you know, like this COVID stuff, which is, you know, it’s turned into a political nightmare, and it’s hard to decide, you know, it’s hard for you especially just you know, the average guy on the street to know what to believe what not to believe and what to be worried about and what not to be worried about. I think we’ve gotten to the point where people don’t trust anything. And I think that’s all they should.

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
They should firm believer in that I trust no government trust no agency, because at the end of the day, they all have an incentive to be able to pend something on you. Even if you haven’t done it, they speculate on it, they got numbers, they’re gonna keep to quotas, they got quotas for arrest and everything like that. And if you can be the Fall Guy for catching something as simple as an mp3, later found out that you had conversations with somebody who may or may not have been dealing drugs on the internet. Hey, you’re an accessory, hey, it’s more money to the DEA. These are what I’m saying like, all of that falls into a very dangerous thing because governments are well aware of what technology can do. The government is still in a draconian era. And the reason why I say that is because recently the NSA posted that they’re having a hard time with getting hackers and stuff, because marijuana Well yeah, no shit most hackers smoke do drugs and stuff and most of Silicon Valley does too. Like and you know like that’s also a misunderstanding that people have it in their head that programmers what they see on TV and what they see you know, like the programmer types and things like that. That’s not majority of what builds the software. Majority of these people have vices and are real humans and have problems and they cope with those problems and sitting in a desk for or standing at a desk for 14 hours. I’m sure you can attest to this. You might need a beer or two at the end of the day, you know, sometimes the beginning of the day,

As long as it’s after today have a great day.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
The day drinking is a thing now right on quarantine right?

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
Everybody’s houses like Vegas right now. It doesn’t matter what hour it is. Cocktails are welcome.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Yeah, it’s tough out there. So one last question, before we wrap up the what would be something that you can do to protect yourself, like from RFID? Like you see these wallets? And is there any kind of devices out there like that or solutions that you know, like a purse or a wallet or any of that stuff is that who does that stuff really work?

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
Some of the works, some of it does not. The thing is, is you have to really do your research to find out what the fabric that’s made with how they’re doing the shielding, and what you’re trying to prevent. So for example, like a debit card, a debit card, you could suppress with wrapping with enough leather, that kind of stuff to some level because it doesn’t have power, right? Like it doesn’t have. So now when you start talking about like passports and stuff like that the newer passports have a very strong RFID chip, and you would be better to get almost like a mini Faraday cage but the problem is don’t buy a foreign a cage. Don’t buy a mini Faraday cage from a company because you’ve literally disclosed to someone else that you’re trying to abuse that information. And, you know, like if I were looking to attack someone, and I knew they had certain devices, or certain purchases recently, I would just figure out what they purchased by breaking into that service and seeing what they purchase find a weakness and that nothing is a silver bullet for security. There’s no one. There’s no silver bullet and software for security. There’s no silver bullet and hardware for security. It’s just like people keeping crypto wallets right a lot of people ask me about those two going on the same RFID thing. Do you use them? No, here’s why. It’s a glorified USB fucking drive. USB drives fail all the goddamn time. Literally all the fucking time. And so now you’re adding another piece of firmware with another moving part on something that’s already touching go as it is. How many times have you went to use a USB drive? Even if it’s not even a year old, turn it on, or plugged into your device and don’t work anymore. How many times have you had that happen? Quite a few. Okay, how many times do you think that happens with things that are specifically designed to stop certain technologies a lot. And that’s why that’s why I say that. That’s why that parallel is important. Because just because something you know, just because something’s designed to stop it, well, it’s designed to stop it as long as you don’t wash it, as long as you don’t clean it with certain chemicals, as long as you don’t expose it to certain hours of sunlight. You know, all of these things are important to keeping that product to work the way it’s supposed to at its maximum operating range. If you exceed any of that by having a life, then you compromise the device and when it does, you see what I mean? Even phones they have a temperature shut off, right? Have you ever been outside? I know you’re in a hotter area than I am at times but you’ve been outside before your phone shut off for temperature overreach. Right?

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
You leave it in your car in the summertime. If you Leaves like especially a smartphone or an iPhone, I think we’ll get up to like, you know, 130 degrees.

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
So think about like this. What if the device that you’re intending to projector RFID with is only supposed to operate at a certain temperature range and all of a sudden you’ve exceeded it, but because you exceeded it now there are weak spots in the protective layer. Oh, I think about that. Well, yeah, no shit. Most people don’t read the manual either for anything I like. And that’s that kind of goes back to what I was saying the consumerism side of it impacts the ability to properly do things, the DIY culture, or the DIY, whatever, do it yourself DIY, the DIY culture today on YouTube. What I would like to see is more people and more viewership on the people who are building. You know how to make your own personal RFID preventative wallets. Here’s how to do this. Here’s how to build this from scratch. This is what you need to know. This is so that you can go but pay with cash. No retrace of you, especially during this corn thing, because you can use a masking gloves and cover yourself up completely. And in some places, it’s still snowing. So definitely wear a jacket or whatever in public, nobody knows what the hell you are. And you don’t wear the same clothes you worn in there before you can buy this stuff to do it. You see what I mean? Like that’s important. Because now you’re not only providing privacy yourself, but also you’ve built the device to protect into enable more privacy on your end, without compromising your information to a company to provide that as a service or a device to you. Because literally, they become an attack. They become the attack surface now. And like just like cloud computing and everything else, online storage, all of that is an attack surface by everybody’s eye. Oh yeah, just use Dropbox. Just use this. Well, that’s great. If you’re going to rely on them use GPG to protect those files and things to a different level. Do you see what I mean? Now only you have that access that’s protected by a password that only you know and, you know, I tell people GPG can be a great Password Manager, because you can literally create an encrypted file on on a, on a actual fucking air gapped device that doesn’t even have a network interface to keep your passwords on and protected. So that only you have access to that device to view it, you see what I mean? At that point, you’re able to kind of take some of that control. But if you if you use things improperly, you might as well not use any operational security measures. Because at that point, you’re breaking the the guise of it, right? Like, it’s like I was saying before, if you use Tor improperly you it’s better not to use it at all. Because you’re just telling everybody I’m using Tor and I’m doing it terribly.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
So drawing attention to yourself whereas you know, and so you know, you eliminate any possibility of hiding in plain sight?

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
Yeah. The idea is to hide in plain sight and the thing is, is what I what I tell people is run exit nodes, RUN RUN relays. Run Tor use Tor but use it properly use tools properly. That’s why I was doing the obelisk I’m going to continue now that things have died down a little bit. Um, I’m trying to educate people on how to have a toolkit, but to understand the toolkit to use it properly, because just because you know that this tool will help you do X, Y or Z if you don’t know how to do it properly doing XY and Z could get you a case. You see what I mean? And it’s just like you know, I recently one last post I did was like breaking into wireless networks. And you know how to do WPA pFk braking with better cap and and was a hashtag. And people say all the time, like why why does someone need to know that was better they know how to do it now versus when they’re in a dire straits and they’re trying to look it up.

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Daniel, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Where can people where can people find out more about you?

Daniel Jones – AKA “Nixops”
@Nixops on Twitter, social media a lot. My DMS are always open. I may not respond quickly. I’m available and telegram tuner the same thing but if I get too much spam on there sometimes I have to turn telegram off. I get a lot of messages on there so sometimes I don’t check it every day. But yeah, Twitter’s the predominant way to find more stuff about me. Some, you know, interviews and stuff like this when they’re on YouTube and other podcasts you can find me But literally, Twitter’s The best way to find me just because it’s my ability to limit what people know and do about me, you know?

Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Perfect. Thank you so much. I’m Rob McNealy, checks out on the web RobMcNealy.com.

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Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Transcript

Invest Noir - Cigars and Crypto

Note: This transcript was automatically generated by artificial intelligence (AI) and therefore typos may be present.

Rob McNealy
Hey guys, Rob McNealy here. And today I am excited. So I am talking to a new our he is the host of the cigars and crypto podcast. And he is a really cool dude. So we’re just gonna gonna hang it up a little bit tonight and see what’s happening on his side of the country. So new are welcome to the show. How are you today?

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Well, my friend, thank you so much for having me. How about you?

Rob McNealy
Oh, good. You know, it’s a it’s been interesting with this little pen demick. Like, adjusting but not adjusting. So like a lot of times, people are like freaking out because they’re, you know, home with their kids and they’re working remote and like, my wife and I work have been working out of the house forever. And we’ve been homeschooling our kids for 10 years. So our kids are like, not really, it’s funny because our kids are like, what’s going on? Because to them, this is like normal life. And they’re just like, I thought everybody to freak it out, but that’s no big deal. Like cuz your life is already kind of like this. But it’s been interesting. My wife for her company she telecommute to Washington, DC. And she’s like one of the only people in our country she a company that works remote and she’s uh, she’s at the director, Deputy Director level for a big company out there. And it’s funny because her entire company went remote, and they’re all freaking out. And it’s funny because I listened to her like conference call sometime and I’m just sitting there laughing and they’re like, her HR department is like saying sending memos around to help support the troops with their new like staying home from you know, the office kind of thing and telling them, make sure you get up in the morning and put on your dress clothes like normal and my wife’s like, dude, I’ve been wearing pajamas to work for seven years with this company. I am not getting dressed now. So it’s kind of funny, right? So Todd Flynn, let’s get into it. Tell us a little bit of our podcast.

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Well, I’m I am the host of cigars and crypto. It started out as guys sitting in a cigar lounge and me sitting in there with a tablet and my MacBook and people asking me, what are you always staring at, you know, talk to us? And I’m like, I’m looking at Bitcoin charts. And, of course, the next question is, what’s Bitcoin? And so I explained to them, you know, what this magical internet money was, and how it’s both money and an asset all rolled into one. And so then they kind of looked at me like, well, how does that work? And so down the rabbit hole we went, I explained it to one person in three, and five. And then I found myself explaining it over and over and over again for about maybe seven months. And I said, You know what, there’s got to be an easier way to do this. So I said, I’m just going to start recording things. I have a background in radio. I did Country radio for a couple years and gospel radio as well. So I’m was familiar with the recording aspect. But I never thought about doing a podcast and so I just said, Well, I’ll just give it a shot. And here I am Episode 96 later, and I’m like, maybe I’m onto something here.

Rob McNealy
So well part of this, what part of the country you out of you don’t have to give an exact location but

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I’m just outside of Philadelphia,

Rob McNealy
Just outside Philly. So what do you what do you find is the response to you go into these What do they call them hops or herps or whatever at the cigar bar kind of thing? Yeah. What’s their response? When you kind of explain what internet money is and stuff like that? They into it, they in denial, they they hate it, what do you what do you seeing?

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
They look at it from a speculative point of view. Um, the thing about cigar smokers is it’s not a cheap hobby. So a lot of the guys Smoke with already investors. But because they don’t understand cryptocurrency, they tend to shy away from it. But they like to ask a lot of questions about it. So they have lots of questions about custody. Volatility not so much where to get it, how to get it. They’re not hung up on the criminal aspects, potential criminal aspects of cryptocurrency they’re really hung up on you know, what is this? How does it work? How do I see it? How do I own it? What can I do with it? That type of thing, you know? So that’s kind of interesting. Some of my friends are libertarians. So they’ve always looked at like, this is money bro. This is like the best money bro. You know, it’s and I agree with him because for me Bitcoin is sound money. And so then there are just some people who just like Oh, Bitcoin crashed it won’t ever be anything. And then they’ll see it go up $100 and then they’ll say, What’s Coinbase? How do I get onto that? If I if I spend $100 will it be 1000 next week? And I’m like, come on, man, you gotta do your homework. You got to do your research.

Rob McNealy
So have you converted a lot of people then?

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
A lot? No, maybe ten?

Rob McNealy
That’s, that’s a good fair amount, though. I mean, I don’t think I’ve covered it. You know, really? It’s been interesting. Seeing where people are with crypto. Yeah. So where do you Where do you see it going over the next year or two? Do you think the the havening is going to make a big difference for Bitcoin? I mean, I think there is the is it priced in is the pandemic priced in. That’s what I’d like to know.

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I think the havening is priced in but I do not I think the pandemic is priced in, I think all of this printing of money is going to inflate the value of Bitcoin. Not monetary value, but source of wealth value. And I say that because people will be looking for something that is stable, that can’t be manipulated. When people start going to the gas stations, and it’s cost seven bucks to get a gallon of gas, or they go to buy a loaf of bread and cost $3 because there’s so much money that’s been printed. People will start to look for things that they can use to conduct commerce and trade and buy things. And when people look at cryptocurrency, they’ll begin to ask the same questions I asked in 2014. What is money? What is the difference between hard and soft money and when Why’s hard money better? What is sound monetary policy? In principle? They won’t ask it that way. But they’ll have very basic questions. Why doesn’t this work?

Rob McNealy
You know, I think that’s an excellent point, right? And then you can say the same thing about the pandemic. And I think part of the problem is, I think a lot of people have a hard time abstracting things that they can’t physically see or physically touch. Right. And so when the money situation when they start seeing, oh, the price of this is going bananas. And I think that loaf of bread is going to go up regardless of what the dollar is doing, because I have concerns about the supply chain anyway. But but I think it’s the same thing with the the pandemic. People on the east coast. You know, three weeks ago, four weeks ago, I have a lot of friends in New York City. And when I was telling them to get the hell out in New York City four weeks ago, they’re like, it’s no big deal. There’s been a few and no Now there’s like 1000 bodies today stacking up in New York City right now with COVID. They’re like, yeah, this is serious. I’m like, okay, but I was telling you that a month ago, and I think, you know, and I don’t want to be that guy, because this is not the thing I want to be right about. But I think you’re right. I think when it starts hitting people in the checkout line, I think that’s when they’re gonna start looking for alternatives to the dollar.

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Yeah. Because for right now, everything is abstract to them. It doesn’t impact me, it’s not affecting me. They look around and they see gas at $1 89. And they’re like, Oh, this is the best it’s been in decades. You know, but they’re not understanding what’s coming on the other side of that, because the amount of money that we’ve pumped into the economy because of the backroom deals by politicians and bureaucrats, that we’re not privy to the information that we’re not privy to, how it will directly impact us, even though we don’t have directly knowledge of what’s happening. I prefer to stay prepared as best I can. I try to make sure that my family is prepared as well. Not just in terms of defense, but understanding knowledge and information as well.

Rob McNealy
You know, I think preparedness is one of those things that is going to get more important going forward on all fronts both, I think, I mean, I don’t know if you’ve ever really listened to the show very much but I read a lot at least on Twitter about financial literacy being an important thing. And and part of that is crypto and and i believe investing in other asset classes and diversification. I’m old so I don’t have all my eggs in one basket. But, you know, and I just think that sound investing, right? You don’t want to put everything in one place but but what I tell people is, you know, you got to prepare yourself in other places, too. It’s like it’s great if you got some investment in Bitcoin, but if you’re carrying, you know, 100 grand in credit card debt, student loan debt, you know, why don’t you you need to focus on that and get that get your house in order. Because to me long term Yeah, you can gamble on crypto and really a lot of crypto is gambling right now. And I’m not bad mouthing any crypto, I run a, you know, or I’m involved in a crypto project, I found a co founder to crypto project. So, you know, I, you know, I still see, even our project is high risk investing if you’re viewing it as a speculative asset because it’s so early on right now, and it’s just the nature of the beast. But that doesn’t mean that you know, I would like to see. Well, I’d like to see people have an awakening from the pandemic.

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I want..I want that to happen. But I don’t think people can keep their eyes off the television. keep their eyes out. Their ears off the radio and their ears out of the echo chambers that surround them every day. When you have and it doesn’t matter, your political persuasion, when you exist in an echo chamber, you suffer from cognitive dissonance. You look for thoughts and ideas that reinforce your own. And the act of doing that prevents or prohibit you from receiving new information or looking at things differently, and making your own decisions and your own determinations on what your reality is and what’s going on around you. And that’s why we have these people kind of falling into these camps. You know, and not really looking out for their neighbor the way they should be, you know, because of like tribalism. You know, I don’t really Subscribe to that, um, you know, I like people who are different than me. Because it’s an opportunity for me to learn and experience new things. I am different from everyone that I live around. But I found out in the last three weeks that I’m really not, because now Well, I mean, of course, we maintain our social distance, but I see my neighbors every day now. And I talk to them every day now. And my neighbors are really cool. Like really cool. And I didn’t know that because we’re so caught up in the rat race to nine to five, every day that you don’t really stop and have an opportunity to talk to people. So the awakening the potential and possibility for an awakening is there. But people have to get away from the noise and just get to know the person to the left in the writing.

Rob McNealy
I think there was an event point was brought up in a book I read a long time ago. And it says it was it was there’s an old book, and it was talking about the internet age and, and it says, people can talk to people around the world now, but they don’t talk to their neighbor kind of thing. Right? And, and I think with social media and online communities, we now have that option to just pick and choose that echo chamber of everybody we like results with, you know, without having to necessarily, you know, it’s easy to filter out the crap you don’t want to see the block and mute months for and I’m just as guilty of using those buttons as anybody else’s. But I think you’re right, I think, you know, I think that some good things are going to come out of this pandemic and the economic fallout from now, I’ll be the first to say and I’d like to get your opinion on this. I don’t believe COVID is causing the problem with the economy I think it’s a trigger exposing an existing problem with our financial systems and I believe a problem with American culture and I want to get your I’ll go into explain what I mean by that, but I want to hear your take on it. I know that’s a loaded questions. Okay. We’re just gonna go we’re just gonna skim the surface right off

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
the surface, right? Okay. Um, As Americans, we are greedy. We consume more than we need. We spend more than we should. We take on debt, instead of saving. We have very high timeframes for life instead of thinking about the future that affects businesses that affects commerce, trade, our spending habits. We are to blame for what happened to the economy. I don’t blame politicians because we put them in office. We listened to what they had to say. And we put them in office anyway. And we keep putting the same people in office over and over and over again. And they’re not doing things in our best interest. So I don’t blame them. COVID did not cause what’s happening to the economy. The economy was on its way down. Anyway. The economy has been down since 2007. Don’t right, go ahead.

Rob McNealy
I was gonna say you’re my echo chamber now. But I agree with you and you’re hitting on all the points that I hit on and people hate me when I talk about about this, and I say it’s like this. Really, if the entire country is destitute with two weeks of not getting a paycheck, we’re so much more fucked than whatever this virus is going to do to us.

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Exactly.

Rob McNealy
I you know, the I Am. I think humans can adapt to all sorts of good things and and can adapt to shit. And I am utterly dismayed that our country is so how do I say fragile? And look we all live paycheck to paycheck all right? Well, here’s the problem. Maybe you shouldn’t live paycheck to paycheck. Why are you living paycheck to paycheck, but there’s that many people don’t get me wrong. Now one of the things I did as an entrepreneur Believe it or not, I owned a get a liquor store in Denver in the worst neighborhood in Denver. We opened carried pistols in the store. It was everything was behind the counter bars on the window. I’m originally from Detroit. trade area too. So, but I grew up in Michigan, but when I lived in Denver and we had our store, it was interesting to me because the people coming into the store were low income people. And these people had $300 shoes. Every one of them had big screen TVs, because they talked about it. Every one of them had the latest and greatest, most expensive iPhone. Now at the time, I was running a cricket phone. You know, flip phone kind of, Oh, looks an awful lot like this one. You know, but, but to me, it was like shocking, because I mean, I we weren’t living paycheck to paycheck at that time. Like we had some money in the bank and some savings and we’re trying hard to, you know, get rid of the little debt we had at the time and things like that was like time ago, but it’s interesting to me that the one of the things about our poor people in this country Is that our poor people are all obese, and they have every possible consumer electronic gadget and consumer luxury good, you can imagine. And having traveled a little bit, it’s amazing to see that. And to me, I believe it’s a cultural flaw in the United States, and I think it’s part of our downfall.

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I think it’s a byproduct of advertisement in communication. folks don’t do better if they don’t know how to do better. If you are surrounded by images of $300, tennis shoes and iPhones and big TVs in flashy cars, those are the things that you strive to obtain. If you’re never taught about sound money, or what a checkbook is, or How to invest or the proper way to budget, you won’t do it. And some cases, some people learn differently. life experience changes them in a way that they have to learn. But if everything around you is moving at the same pace, there’s no need for you to slow down or speed up. And so people emulate what they see. And I think about, you know, one of the books that really changed my life man was the Bitcoin standard. And it really changed the way I look at money, and how I view what money is and what money should be. No one taught me that I asked questions, who became curious because I didn’t expect The answers I got. So I wanted to validate what I was hearing and what I was reading. So I read something else and I read something else and I read something else. Then I looked at my decisions and was like, yo, like, I had to change some things. If I want something 20 years from now, I can’t keep doing this today. I’ve got to learn how to put money away. I’ve got to learn how to start looking for assets, appreciating assets, not depreciating assets. I don’t want to go out and buy even though I can afford I don’t want to go out and buy 2020. Lexus now, I will go out and buy a 1964 Ford F 100 pickup truck and never drive it. You see what I mean? And then wait 10 years and sell it for five or 10,000 more than what I paid for.

Rob McNealy
Those fleet sides are going up in value. Aren’t they?

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I am trying to tell you baby?

Rob McNealy
I watch Barrett Jackson.

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Yeah, my wife looks at me like I’m crazy. She’s like, he’s such an old man. I’m like, No, I’m trying to tell you there’s something to this. Not only is it beautiful, but it will appreciate your value over time.

Rob McNealy
I think one of the things you’re hitting on is really good. And I think a really good primer of this, this thinking as well as Rich Dad, Poor Dad. You know, it’s a very clear, it’s a very cliche book. But it really lines out the basics is the fact is, were you even even outside of sound money though, you know? Robert Kiyosaki is now on the Bitcoin bandwagon and crypto bandwagon as well now, but the whole point is, is getting your financial ducks in a row and i and i think you know, Dave Ramsey, that’s a great place to start Financial Peace University. Right? And and so I grew up I grew up in a fairly poor family. And I came from people that were the poor dads in that book, my family that was that that was my family. And so I had learned really bad money management behaviors from my family. You know, and and when I, when I’m bad bashing financial literacy in this country, it’s not even demographic specific. It crosses every income, every ethnic, you know, demographic, every education level in this country. Almost everybody falls down into the same problems of living paycheck to paycheck, spending more than they make not saving money, getting into a lot of debt that is normal in the United States today. And, and the reason I’m talking about is not because I want to rub it in people’s faces. When they’re struggling. That’s not what I’m trying to do. What I’m hoping is that once we get through this name, mer that’s unfolding in like, slow motion because it is in slow motion for a lot of people is I hope that they come out of this going Holy crap, I need to do something different because I only had I could only last two weeks. Right? And and basic financial literacy is three to six months or at least a year’s worth of emergency fund. Now think of it this way you are think of it what happens if 75% of the country had a six month emergency fund right now. D things would be very different right now.

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Very different.

Rob McNealy
But this pandemic..

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
..is very different. Because then if we had six months of savings, if if 75% of us had six months of savings, we will be able to see the difference between the Sham economy and the real economy. Because the stock market is not the economy. And I try to tell people that all the time and they don’t get it. But businesses may be hurting But the economy will be fine. Because people will have saved and prepared and will be able to take care of their needs. Not just saving money, but saving food, saving ammo, saving the things that are important when these folks are going out buying toilet paper, Bro, I was buying bullets. Because I knew.

Rob McNealy
Yeah, you know, actually, I think both are a good investment right now. And I finally figured out why the toilet paper actually makes a lot more sense and why that’s not being stocked but we can go into that offline. But no, I actually we’ve been I’ve been trying to dig into the supply chain stuff. It’s pretty fascinating. I learned a lot more about toilet paper than I ever thought I would want to know about toilet paper in the last three weeks. But But I think what’s happened what I’m seeing out there is is that Americans not only are monetarily not prepared, they’re not prepared from a personal On the fence standpoint, they’re not prepared for retirement either is that we’re inherently a really weak nation now. We’re fragile and psychologically. I’m not sure that the I’m not sure in the next two years, what the country is going to look like, on the other side of those two years. What do you think? Do you think there’s gonna be big changes culturally in this country from this?

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I think culturally, and economically, there’ll be massive changes from this. We fall victim to propaganda. And other countries for the last what 10 years specifically, the BRICS nations have been preparing for a calamity BRICS being Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa. They have been buying, stockpiling, stockpiling gold, platinum palladium rhodium. They are preparing to trade with each other for oil and other goods and services in gold, bypassing the Petro dollar. They’ve been preparing. We’ve been blustering. And as powerful as our military is, and I’m in no way shitting on our military, I’m a seven year army vet. So I am not shitting on the military. But as powerful as our military is a military cannot function if it is not financed. And we have depressed the dollar so much. I am actually scared of external threats, less internal threats. You know what I mean?

Rob McNealy
You Yep. You know, it’s interesting, you know, you know, it’s a good exercise. You don’t know me that well, but I tend to go down some really deep rabbit holes when I want to know information. Again, and and, and I have a pretty I have a really big network and I know a lot of interesting and resourceful people and a lot of interesting positions all over the place. So if I really want to have a question, I have enough people in my Rolodex that are worth, you know, eight, nine digits and have lots of connections. So if I have a weird question, I can pick up the phone and they’ll take my calls. And one of those things that I I’ve gone down that rabbit hole about the military, and they started looking at, you know, okay, how was the United States poised for a war? So it’s interesting right now. And I’m going down this rabbit hole right now, but what happens if we can’t make ammunition and there’s a war or even just more war than we have right now? Do you so I don’t know if you’ve been to any kind of store. Now. We all know that. Been a lot of FOMO buying guns and ammo. But I have a lot of connections into the arms industries and from I’m going to confirm some of these things. But I’ve been talking to quite a few people and I have a bunch of wholesale accounts as well. There’s no ammunition in the distributor network or the retail network at this point. There’s nothing you can order from RSR you can order from CRO shooting supply. And these are the biggest distributors that distribute to all the retailers nationwide in the gun world. They don’t have any ammo either. They don’t have any way to backward the ammo. And so I started going down rabbit holes, and I’m like, what’s the problem? So here’s an interesting thing that no one’s talking about. And I’ve been talking about this since January. So China’s been offline since January. They make everything and people don’t even know the extent that we’re dependent on China. Like we’re not like, Oh, we could just ignore them more like we’re they’re like holding up, we’re walking down the street kind of dependent on them. So, so the interesting thing, I started looking at the supply chain because I’m like, Okay, I’m gonna get, I’m gonna move up here because I’m getting all excited now. But so I started looking at the supply chain stuff. Do you know there’s this thing called buffer inventory? So I said, Okay, if ships stop moving cargo from China, to the United States, how long before we run out of stuff? And no one’s talking about that question. No one not in the mainstream media. I have her I have a hard time even finding information about people who would ask that question. So in my day job, I got a lot of people that bring manufacturer stuff in China, and I just started picking up the phone. And they said, if we don’t get shipments By May, we’re out of our our inventory by June, and they don’t have any firm dates from China. And then I started saying, Okay, well, how long what’s the buffer inventory in the United States? Well, for most things, and I’m talking about everything, it’s one to four months of buffer inventory in the United States for almost anything. China’s not back online yet. So another way to so I go down this other rabbit hole, right? And I’m just like I’m really interested in like, Okay, well, how do we confirm that there’s a problem with the amount of stuff moving? Well, there’s this thing called the dry Baltic index, which is the marketplace where people buy shipping containers to move raw goods, not necessarily finished goods. It’s fell off a cliff. No one’s buying shipping from China to the US. And so, I’ve started talking to people and you know, I started looking at what are the things that we need in the United States to live not talking TVs at Walmart, we got plenty of those right. And everybody’s gonna buy in with their stimulus. Trump bucks. But they make 90% of our drugs and drug precursors in China. Now. Yes, he Here’s a couple other things they make. They also make all the ingredients and food processing chemicals for our food supply. Not not, and then on top of that, most of our seafood comes from China. So just on that alone, it’s like, wow. And no one’s talking about this. And then the toilet paper thing. So I always think ahead, right? I always stocked up on stuff and I said, you know, all the things that’s not back in inventory right now at any grocery store out here is toilet paper and paper goods. Still gone. totally gone. And so I went down this rabbit hole, new era of like, how like how much toilet paper? Do you know how much toilet paper we buy in the United States every year? You’re not big the market is

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Probably massive.

Rob McNealy
Massive – $6 billion a year. So what we spend, but here’s the word, but do you know what most of it’s actually made in the United States. Actually, we Don’t actually import much toilet paper we employed about $500 million a year in toilet paper. Most of it doesn’t even come from China comes from Indonesia. So it’s really interesting to me I’m like okay, so why are these shelves empty? This just can’t all be FOMO buying. Well we found two problems though. And the thing that I just uncovered the other day is all like what what’s the problem? Well guess what? Even though we make the toilet paper here, the recycled paper that makes the toilet paper is like the cheapest pulp comes from China. I think they’re out because China’s not back in line yet. And in fact, that dug into that rabbit hole. Most of the so we said whole cargo ships have you know all that recycled cardboard and plastic and or paper that you know gets bundled up goes to China. They turn it into pulp and ship it back and then we make it into toilet paper. The other problem with the supply chain we got a couple points. With the supply chain in the country, but that’s one of those external threats. Here’s another interesting thing. You know, I started looking at all these other countries with COVID now we’re getting into a whole prepper weird, crazy conversation. But I started talking to people and you know, what happens when India and you know, and some of these other countries start having a problem with COVID? How would that affect the supply chain and how could that affect us? Well, it’s interesting, you know, India’s a big country and they’re not they’re having they’re gonna have a big problem, I think with this pandemic, and they’re just starting, they’re just getting started. You know, they’re like the number two rice exporter in the planet. So what happens if because of absenteeism from illness and lockdowns and fear? They don’t produce let’s just say they produce less rice, not no rice but less rice. They feed a lot of countries and one of those other countries going to do here’s another thing so We’ve had four meatpacking plants in the United States go down because of COVID in the last week and a half, for in the last week and a half. And we’re talking one plant alone does 5% of the pork for the entire United States just went down in the last week. So, two, so a meat and a beef plant in Iowa, one of the biggest beef slaughterhouses in northern Colorado in Greeley. And then a port processing plant up in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, all went down the last 10 days because COVID they don’t know when they’re coming back online. So you have this absenteeism. So there’s food and pigs and cows in the United States. But if you can’t get them processed, what’s that gonna do to people in Philly at the grocery store? Right. Right. What does that do the so we’re talking about that loaf of bread getting more expensive just because of inflation for money. What what happens when that price goes up two or three times? Because there’s no one to process as much, or what happens if the truck drivers are too afraid to drive truck across country to a pandemic zone, which you’re already seeing in New York City now. And it’s gonna get worse through the summer I predict from all the major cities, especially I think every major city east of the Mississippi is gonna have a problem with COVID bad. And so that’s my prediction. You can call me out on it by August we’ll have a conversation as car over it. But these are the things that I am getting concerned about. Now, here’s the thing, where did we get a lot of our produce from in the wintertime?

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Mexico.

Rob McNealy
China, Mexico. So what happens if they have absenteeism from fear and illness? Now right now you can’t cross the border to Mexico. Well, all those workers that work our field come from Mexico. Regardless of what the conservatives want to believe about rural America and farmers, they’re all run by Mexicans. That’s just a fact. So the workers can’t get here. But what happens if Mexico’s farms have the same problem we do? What if their processing plants go down because of fear and illness? COVID in the wintertime, you know, this fall, what does that do to the price of food? Now, you know, I’ve spent a lot of time in inner cities now. And you know, I know I come from a poor family. So what happens to people that are dependent on EBT? And now that price of hamburger went from $4 a pound to $15 a pound or $20 a pound? How are those people going to react when their food stamps don’t go very far now. And those are the things that keep me concerned. But, you know, then you get into the International, you know, incidents with like, Okay, well, if countries don’t have enough food now to feed their people, what are they going to do? And put put your military thinking hat on. What does that look like in a year from now? And, and so I think we have multiple problems happening. And I think COVID is the trigger to basically say, look, this Emperor has completely naked now. And you guys got a lot of problems. Right? Right ranting but those are the things they have me concerned right now.

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I’d have to agree with all of those assessments but I if I could convince my wife man, we will be out of here. My my family immigrated here from the Bahamas in the 20s. And I still have family there and if I could convince my wife man, we will be out. Like to

Rob McNealy
To the Bahamas?

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Damn right, right now.

Rob McNealy
I’m not sure I’d want to go to an island right now to be honest. Because they’re actually all the all the people Caribbean islands right now are having problems with COVID. Yeah, so and so the question is on an island, you’re completely dependent on outside logistics for your support. If those logistics chains start getting broken, you’re really kind of on an island.

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Just eat fish every day.

Rob McNealy
You if you can. I love the Caribbean man, I, you know, I’ve been to a lot of Caribbean islands and, man, I would be all about at least having a second house there. I’m not sure I’d want to write out this there. Right now. You know, we moved to Salt Lake City now six years ago now, and I think was a smart move because as far as urban or suburban areas were one of the most prepared states on the planet, like part of the the LDS culture, the Mormon culture, and is that, you know, they’re supposed to have a year supply of food. A lot of people don’t know that but like the whole morning A church is one giant prepper organization. And in fact, the Mormon Church has its own grain silos all over the place. And they have their own food processing, canneries and everything. I mean, they’re really dialed in. And so people in Utah are pretty, pretty resilient and self reliant. And that was one of the things that attracted me to the Utah in general. Was that self reliance? so far with COVID? We’re one of the only states that’s not locked down. We’re we’re in a semi we’re in a voluntary soft lockdown. Like the governor comes on the you know, every day at you know, lunchtime and says, Please, please, please, please, please don’t make me become a tyrant. Before she’s like, just do the right thing. Right. But but we haven’t had many cases here. So we’ve had 20 deaths in the whole state, but it’s picking up space. It’s picking up pace now. So you know, I think we’re gonna be one of the last to go if it goes bad, just because one more small population and we’re facing fairly isolated compared to, you know, the, you know, east of the Mississippi. It’s just so much more crowded in the east coast in the Midwest that it’s just a lot harder I think with this, I mean, so what does your wife Think about all this? You mean you sound like you’re a preparedness guy too, right?

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
But she’s she’s now four that she thinks I’m overreacting.

Rob McNealy
What does she think you’re overreacting?

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Because she’s never seen me act like this before.

Rob McNealy
Really? How are you acting?

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Like, I need to be prepared.

Rob McNealy
Gotcha. But were you prepared before or is this something more recent or is this kind of like, ongoing thing without divulging any opsec Right, right, right. You know, I don’t need to know what you have or don’t have but, you know, I just like to understand where people are coming from because.

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I’ve, I’ve always believed in having Little more than what’s absolutely necessary. I think we need to go all in. We need to be really putting we really need to be the squirrel and story a cause for real bad weather.

Rob McNealy
I agree with you now I have no OPSEC because I run a prepper crypto crypto conference every year called Off Chain: http://OffChain.events. So it’s kind of obvious that I do put things away. And that’s kind of part of, it’s just part of who we are. We don’t even think about it. It’s just like, but it’s funny because we just opened up pinto beans from 2011 the other day. And they were fine, by the way, right? Is it really good? But you’re like, I don’t you know, it’s one of those things like I hope I never have to open this five gallon bucket of pinto beans. But I’m glad I had the pinto beans. Kind of great. But I think yeah, I think what What I’ve been telling people right now it’s like cuz there’s a lot of people that are waking up. You know, I’m a gun guy. And sounds like you’re a gun guy as well. Yeah. Have you had a lot of people ask you about that? Guns recently?

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
What do you mean. asked me what?

Rob McNealy
Like people that are non gun people getting interested in wanting information about guns.

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
No. Everyone who knows me knows that I’m a gun guy. But they don’t ask me about it.

Rob McNealy
Now, because it’s interesting because I’ve had four people in the last two weeks three were first time gun buyers wanting to know what to buy, where to buy that kind of thing, and that one person was looking for food. And I’m like, Of course I’m and I’m like, Oh, of course. I’m the guy you call. But it’s just it’s been interesting seeing like people’s getting concerned now and I tell people right now if you haven’t prepped, you got one last opportunity right now. Do to get as much As you can get and but but I tell people, first thing you need to do is mentally prepare yourself for change. Probably drastic change, yes. Probably tough times, yes. A mentally prepare yourself that life is not going to be the same and get okay with that.

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Right. And it’s going to happen quickly.

Rob McNealy
It’s good. It’s not happening quickly enough.

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Because I don’t I don’t think we I don’t think we’re where we need to be.

Rob McNealy
Well, I think I was telling someone the other day that I think there’s people don’t have a sense of urgency in outside of the East Coast right now at all about this. All they want to do is they’re they’re healthy, they don’t see a problem. There’s not body stacking up. And so I think what’s happening is they can’t abstract what’s happening. I think it’s a combination of normalcy bias. Time preference. I think it’s like, there’s a glacier coming of really big freakin glacier. And it’s gonna run over your town. Right? But everybody’s like, well, I don’t see the glacier move, but it’s gonna run over the town. Well, I don’t see it moving. So I’m not going to do anything. And I think a lot of people are struggling with them because of it. And then they see the more immediate I’m not working, I don’t have money coming in and do those are all valid concerns, especially if you don’t have any savings. Right? So I don’t have a good answer to that. But this is not just a COVID Glacier. This is a supply chain glacier that’s affecting the entire planet in a slow moving wave like a glacier. Right? And it’s going to take a year before you know it’s gonna take months I would bet it’s gonna be a very scary summer is what I predict. Because I think you’re going to see a lot of cities all flaring up at the same time. I think you’re going to have the the buffer inventories from China burn through, I think you’re gonna have a lot of absenteeism. And you know, shortages because of this plants going down and this plant is going down and, and I think all that stuff is going to be rolling. So you’re, it’s like you’re gonna, you know, New York will be starting to be through its peak and then Chicago is going to be hitting its peak. Right, you know, or just starting in Detroit and St. Louis. And it’s just going to go on and on and on. And it’s going to take all right, well, I’ll be you know, New York hasn’t peaked yet. So understand this, right. Like, it’s been six weeks we had no, I mean, it’s like, stayed in New York, like, what 20 some thousand now or something. I mean, six weeks ago, they had zero need, it’s like, so it’s like gradually but you know, and that’s just one major city with it. But what happens when you have four cropping up in six more weeks. What does that look like? And right now most of the resources to handle COVID have been redirected to New York from other places. So I don’t I think we’re going to be I think the, the response to COVID is going to be scary. And I think there’s going to be a, I mean, there’s going to be a lot of people that are gonna, you know, not make it through this. Right. But I think what’s going to affect all of us is the supply chain failures domestically and internationally. And I think that and how people react to them. The question is, how do people react and you know, you know, I so are you from Philly your whole life? You said your family came from Bahamas, where are you? Where were you raised?

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I was, I was born in New York, but I was raised in DC.

Rob McNealy
Okay. So, you know, and I’ve lived all over but I’ve been out west about 20 years, but I grew up in the Midwest. So I spent 20 years in the Detroit area for 28 years, actually, in the Detroit area. I know this that people Americans have never had to deal with empty shelves. Think about that.

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Never.

Rob McNealy
Never. Now I’ve traveled a little bit, you probably traveled a little bit, you go to other places. Well, I don’t have any there’s nothing on the shelf for a month, but next month will be something on that shelf. And people are okay with that because that’s the system. Right? That’s what they’re used to. And the more third world or developing nations that’s that’s common, right? Well, we’ll get something pretty soon. You know, they don’t know. Americans have never had to deal with that. I’m 48 I’ll be 48 this summer. I’ve never seen that my lifetime.

Unknown Speaker
Now, add to that, that we are the nation with the most guns per person on the planet.

Rob McNealy
Yep.

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
It’s good to be MadMax in the Thunderdome.

Rob McNealy
You know it It’s I don’t know where this is gonna go. You know, I’m just saying is if you’re like imagine if you’re like around a bit I think like a big pot. You’re in the kitchen right? You got a big giant pot is thrown in, you’re just gonna make the most worst meal ever. And you’re gonna just throw in some like, throw it’s a Molotov cocktail, a little gasoline, a little acid, gunpowder, TNT, nuclear weapons, throw into pathogens, turn it all up and, and let it launch in the middle of the summertime in the Midwest, like Detroit and Philly in Chicago, and then tell people, they got to be locked in their house because there’s a pandemic and they don’t have air conditioning. Right. Just like, you know, but I think but I even think about the air conditioning piece, right? I mean, I’ve been around a lot of inner cities growing up and where I’ve worked and stuff and I’m not this is not a stereotype. It’s a fact a lot of people don’t have central air. in inner cities in the Midwest, Detroit area, every summer when there’s a heatwave in Detroit, there’s people dying because they don’t have air conditioning. And, and think about it so and part of the response to that is people hang out outside, they get barbecue, they hang out the friends that hang out late at night instead of during the day, because they don’t want to be in their house. So what happens if you stir all that in top of that? Oh, man, I am not. I am not looking forward to this summer at all with this. And and i think that i think the COVID is just exposing all sorts of problems that already were there. And I think a lot of people are gonna get mad. A lot of people are going to get frustrated. There’s not things on the shelves. I think people are going to be pissed that things cost a lot more. I think people are going to be pissed because they’re told to stay in the house. They don’t want to stay in the house. Let’s just be honest, people don’t like being told what to do. Right? Anyways, I’m ranting. I’m sorry man. I I don’t know, man. I think it’s gonna be I think it’s gonna be wack. That’s what I think it’s gonna be a wack time.

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
It’s gonna be interesting.

Rob McNealy
And so what do you think people should be doing? So, alright, so people here like, you know they’re not on the East Coast not in the Midwest. They’re just like doo dee doo dee doo. What would be your saying what would be your advice right now to those people?

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Move out, move out of debt, move out of credit. Start putting away a little cash. start, stop putting away things that you can trade and start thinking about how you defend yourself and your family. Start thinking about how you feed yourself and your family. Make those things a priority because when the time comes and you realize that you need to do it, it’s already too late. Because other people are realizing at the exact same time that they need to do it. And then it becomes survival of the fittest. And the question is, how fit are you?

Rob McNealy
I couldn’t disagree with any of that? And, man, I’m usually a lot more uplifting than this.

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Me too man.

Rob McNealy
No, but but seriously, though, I mean, I think that’s a good point is cover your frickin bases right now you’re sitting home. Don’t look at Pornhub all day, don’t play video games all day. start figuring out what you need to do to get past six months from now. Right? What’s that gonna look like? Right? You know, I don’t have a crystal ball. And I sure as hell hope that all the stuff we talked about doesn’t happen. I really hope it doesn’t happen. And you know what? I’ve been wrong before. You know I would I thought that shit was gonna meltdown in 2013. I’ll tell you that. That was I thought 20 13 if I had to put like, you know, the crystal ball on it, I was you know, my tea leaves are telling me 2013 it’s all it’s all over with. That’s gonna go mad max. That’s what I thought didn’t happen. They pumped up the housing market again. And now the housing markets way crazier now than it wasn’t you know 2007 2008 and I think that’s another I think that’s another shoe that’s gonna drop. And what do you what do you think about that? What do you think is gonna happen and how..

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
People out of work, they won’t be able to pay their mortgages.

Rob McNealy
Yeah. And the banks already tightening their credit lines again, and they’re already in get. My wife is super smart. I’m the dumb one of the family. My wife’s really smart. And we were walking around the neighborhood and there was a house that same size as mine, but they remodeled it. And they sold it for two and a half times my house. There’s a Worth right now. And it’s just a brick ranch house. Okay. I mean, this is not a fancy neighborhood or anything like that. But the numbers on the house, I mean, I look it up I like I like to look at real estate like to see what’s happening and and I was like, there’s no way in hell, I mean, we could afford that. But there’s no way I could pay that. I think we overpaid for my house when we bought it, and how my house has doubled in the last five years. And I said, there’s no way I would buy my house for what it’s valued at right now. I would not spend it. It’s not worth it. To me. It’s just, you know, it’s ridiculous. My wife made a good point, though. She’s like, because, you know, we were growing up with the house during the last housing crash, and she’s like, this housing crash is gonna be a lot faster to bottom and I go, what do you mean by that? Just to think about it, you know, in 2007, the price of a house was about a third what it is now, for the same house, even our old house. It’s funny, it’s like you look back on what our old House was in Colorado. And we’re like, holy crap. It’s ridiculous what that house costs, it’s that it’s ridiculous. So she’s like, think about this house. So she’s like, if a house has an $800,000 a month mortgage, it’s going to take two people working full time probably pay for that mortgage, and it’s probably like a 5000 $6,000 a month mortgage. She’s like, what if one of those people lose their job? Just one. Now this is before COVID head. So this was like last, you know, this is several months ago. And she’s she had a great point. She says, they can’t go and just liquidate their 401k out or go do Uber part time to come up with that nut every month. While they’re hoping they get another big boy job. She should so she says that housing markets probably going to hit bottom a lot faster because people are going to run out of money much faster because the mortgages are a lot bigger now. And I thought that was a really interesting point. That hadn’t heard anybody else make? Yeah. So, you know, I’m worried my brother I am, I’m so worried about where people are. And, and I’ve been in agony because I see so many people that are destitute so quickly. You know, I knew it was bad. I mean, it wasn’t ignorant to the savings rates and stuff, but the fact that I see people like so depressed and miserable, and they’re, I mean, I would bet that at the end of the year, you’re gonna see that the suicide rates probably gonna go crazy this year. And that makes me sad. Because, you know, you know, the regardless, we can get through all this shit. You know, I lived in a van behind a grocery store one summer as an adult, you know, and, and I would and I, and that’s no bullshit, okay? I mean, I’ve really came from a hard life growing up, and, you know, it’s like, I’m like, and you know what, none of that shit scares me. I’ve lost it all. And I’ve had an thing and I grew up with nothing so you know money and all that kind of stuff I you know, being broke like, whatever, you know figure the shit out, right that’s my attitude on it not that I want to be poor because being poor sucks but what I’m saying is but for people who have never experienced that right now because they grew up in this debt fueled really upper middle class you know lifestyle I think there’s gonna be a reckoning and I think those people are gonna have a very hard time adjusting to what the future holds.

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I think those people will be prey.

Rob McNealy
Yeah. Especially the ones that don’t like guns. And what do you think about precious metals? Are you a pro so book, silver bug, why silver over boom.

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
It’s in every phone. So most of our electronics, the price has been depressed even more than gold. So once the banks get their film off the paper Silver supply and the real value of silver is able to be discovered by the market. Got a pretty good feeling about it.

Rob McNealy
What is that? 50 is it 50 times now?

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I thought it was 75?

Rob McNealy
I haven’t looked in a couple weeks. So you really are you know like you are definitely my echo chamber right now. I like I like silver more than gold for the seasons. That’s an interesting thing. The the precious metals markets have been really bizarre, haven’t they? Yes. Tell me about what are you seeing out there?

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Ah, I dollar cost average precious metals the same way I do crypto and over the last month, actually six to eight weeks. The premium over spot for silver is Bananas. I recently purchased from admix $7 30 cent premium over spot. Now considering considering silver is like 14 $15 an ounce, so that’s 30 to 50% 50. Premium on an ounce.

Rob McNealy
So what does that mean?

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Something that we don’t know.

Rob McNealy
So explain that. So for people that are not gold or silver or precious metal bugs, what does that mean? It’s good to go into a little bit.

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Sure. Spot price is how much the market recognizes an ounce of silver for let’s say it’s $15 Okay. The premium is charged by the retailer to the consumer, because of various reasons, one of which is the difficulty in getting in Or the supply levels, how easy and how much there is to be sold at any given time, how much the mid releases at any given time, or how much silver was mined at any given time. When the supply starts to dry up, the premium on silver goes up, because they identify that more people want it, there’s less of it. So it becomes a law of supply and demand. So the less silver there is in the market to be sold and or the less silver has been mined in a month or six months or a year, the higher the price of silver will be and the higher the premium will probably be as well. And so when I went out to buy to do my regular DCA You know, I’m like damn, like $7 36 like This is like 50% like, really? Like believe what I was seeing when I saw it. And I mean, at max Providence on money metals, JM bullion, it didn’t matter where you win the premium was in that range of 50% premium.

Rob McNealy
Yeah, well, what what I think is interesting is that just based on the markets tanking, just based on global supply chain threats, the spot price of gold and silver should be off the charts. They should be off the chain they should be going nuts agree they’re not good. Not this the and usually in Newtown. I mean, typically, you might spend a buck you know even less depending for for the premium. If there is one, it’s not anywhere near you know, seven bucks, right, you make 1050 cents more for Well, I want this round and it’s got 20 Well design on it or whatever, you know. But what’s happened and what it looks like to me that for a long time in precious metals, a lot of the precious metal bugs out there have been saying that precious metal markets have been artificially depressed. And it’s, it’s easy to write that off as conspiracy, right? You see that a lot of times too with crypto, the crypto whales are suppressing the bitcoin price, whatever, you know, you hear that there too. But it’s interesting. Is that what there’s what it looks like it’s happening because right now, I don’t know how much physical delivery what lead times are you getting out there for the physical delivery, two weeks, we’re getting four to six new top. And so it’s interesting. And what so what they’re saying is, is that the the conspiracy theory that I’ve heard is that that there’s these paper gold and paper silver, and that they’ve oversold it, meaning that they’ll say this one, you know, this security is is worth so many ounces of silver, and they sell it, then treat it like a stock like an equity. And there’s a lot of people have alleged for a long time that they’ve sold those times more than once, maybe dozens of times. And so what’s happening and why the supply is all janky is that people now want physical delivery, and there’s not enough to go around. And so that premium that’s skyrocket. So what should be happening is the spot price should be skyrocketing to reflect market changes and conditions because this is exactly what precious metals are designed for a hedge against. And that’s not functioning right. But then, but what happens is since it looks like the markets not being allowed to actually, well, it looks to me that the market is not being allowed to do true price discovery on precious metals for whatever reason, right? That retail premium is where the market is finding the price.

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Right, you’re starting to see a real decoupling in precious on hand metals versus precious paper metals. So I see a real decoupling,

Rob McNealy
Which then would support that there’s been some corruption and maybe some manipulation for the suppression of those prices. And it’s like, wow, and it’s funny because it’s like this goes back to COVID the trigger, but it’s only exposing this ID Oh, there’s this other problem. This this this rot, right. That’s been there for a long time. The rot comes from consumerist mentality among Americans that come from the lack of we don’t save money. We’re not providing to literacy that’s rot in my opinion. And then you have you know, all this just crazy amounts of US dollars being printed. That’s right. And then you have the precious metals markets, being rigged, apparently, or oversold, and that’s a rot it, all this stuff and all this outsourcing to China for the last three decades and how great it was, you know, and I’m from Detroit. So I know all I mean, I grew up in I went through high school in the 80s. And and I grew up through all that outsourcing happened in the 80s in the 90s. And then NAFTA happened in the mid 90s. Thank you, Bill Clinton. And so I mean, I, I saw what it did to Detroit one because I grew up in I was living there in that and I used to work in the auto industry. And it’s like, there’s rot from all the outsourcing and it’s like, so it’s like, there’s all this immense amount of shit of rot that’s just pile up for decades and decades and decades and, you know, go back to, you know, getting off the gold standard A long time ago, and I mean, this started probably before I was born really, but it’s all coming to head from this goddamn virus. It’s like, and then the housing market, the student loan bubble, the housing bubble again, it’s all just right all at once, and it’s happening around the planet all at once. Right? And it’s and it’s not, but it’s not happening overnight. It’s gonna take a year, probably the next year as this this pandemic goes through all those different major population centers. It’s gonna and so it’s like it’s gonna get good in one spot and then just pop up into more like crazy whack a mole. And so I don’t know man if this is probably going to be the most historically speaking, yeah, good or bad. It’s going to be a fucking ride. Yeah, and and you know what and why need to connect with smart people like you they get it? Because, you know, if the ones that are slightly prepared, are also going to be targets. That’s a fact. Right? You know, I like to read history. And I actually like to read about Russian history, and Ukrainian history and things. And I don’t know if you know much about what happened in Ukraine. But when the Soviets invaded the Ukraine, they had like, two levels of peasants, right? They had the peasants and the peasants that could hire somebody to work for them. They’re only slightly better off peasants. They call them coup locks. And what the Russians did is they said that every they they created all these policies, the Soviets create all sorts of quotas and stuff and they said, all these failures are because of the coup locks because they’re rich. They weren’t rich. They were just slightly less poor than the average peasant, but they might have you know, a little bigger farm and employ two people or something. That’s how the locks work. But the Soviets through propaganda whipped up, so much froth and hate and envy between The Super poor peasants and the cool locks. And they blamed every government failure on the cool locks into the point where they basically either killed center gulags or exiled they confiscated all the property, the cool locks the entire country. And that was that’s the that’s what the whole Ukrainian genocide was about in they blame, they call them coup locks. And I tell people now that, you know, we joke around about toilet paper envy and things like that. But we’re already starting to see the signs that there’s going to be people that the preppers the people that are self reliant the people that aren’t in debt, the people that you know, have some savings are probably going to be targets. And it’s going to be propagandize much like cool locks were and I do believe this is going to be a true threat over the next year or more. Friend of mine down in Texas. He has he’s a prepper and his wife and him you know, we talked a lot And she says they have like, they actually have some decent, you know, kind of, you know, and 95 reusable and 95 mass that look kind of stylish and I have if you look at my profile picture, I have one too. And because I bought them a long time. And, and it was funny because he told and I talked to him yesterday. And he said, because the damnedest thing just happened I go Why? Because my wife was at the store and somebody started calling her out for having a good mask not a homemade one. Wow, she’s got she’s got you know, she’s got a real nice mask and we just got these, you know, homemade ones. I’m like, holy shit. It’s like just I mean, I know I my mind just going like crazy places when I hear stuff like that. Yeah. Where’s it gonna go? You know, and you know, that’s that’s the stuff that kind of gets me worried about you know, protecting my family and stuff. Stuff like that is like, you know, you work very hard and save and you don’t go on that family vacation or you don’t go on that big trip because you want to buy, you know, some extra supplies or buy, you know, you don’t buy the nice steak but you buy a couple extra cans of beans or something, you know, you do that long enough. And you know, because you feel it’s an insurance policy and then you know, so you can ride these things out. And then and then somebody says or acts like you did something wrong. It’s like, you know, I just thought ahead. I was a boy scout too. By the way, I was also a firefighter and EMT, so I think about this stuff. But I don’t know man. This is a really a downer. Thanks. So what can we do? Well, what can we do to get people to wake up more? often can we help? How can people say how can we help people say it themselves? Is it too late?

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I hate to go I really mean, but I’m really not worried about other people.

Rob McNealy
Fair enough.

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Right now I’m just worried about me and my family, I’ll help my neighbor, if I have to help my neighbor, but not at the expense of helping my family.

Rob McNealy
I think there will be a lot of people that will have to make those choices in the future. You know, and my wife and I, we have these kind of conversations too. You know, it’s like, what do you do? And, you know, because people know, we have, you know, we have some emergency supplies and stuff. I mean, I don’t hide that. I never hide it because I tried to help people and get them excited about it and say, Hey, this is an important thing. So I know those I know those decisions I’m gonna have to make at some point, because I’m the guy they call it ready. So looking for advice, right? So it just is what it is. But we knew that that we always knew that that was a risk. So you know, there’s nothing I can do about that now, but I don’t Want to be I want you know, I always say this is that I wear a mask. And my families have been wearing masks when we’re in public and things. Because I don’t want to be part of the problem. Because if you’re not part of the problem, you can be part of the solution. You know, what I’m saying is don’t be a victim first, right? Protect your family. Protect your what you got. Because if you’re in that position, then you do have the option to help other people. Right. And, you know, maybe I can’t help the whole neighborhood, but maybe I can help one person, you know, and, and that’s what I hope to do. And like, you know, we’re putting in a big garden this year, like a really big garden, like nuts. you’d laugh it’s like a farm. And I told my wife I go, you know, I don’t know where things are going. And and she’s about 98% where I am. I’m a little more like, no, buy everything we can possibly buy right now. You know, I’m a little more, you know, let’s just do we got this one last chance is how I see it. And I said, you know, let’s just put in more, let’s fill up some more lawn, put in some more plants and she’s like, why do we need more? I go, because we can help other people if we need. That’s why. And that’s how I think you know, and you know it doesn’t hurt me to buy you know, by the way you can buy seeds at the dollar store for for $1 everybody’s freaking out about seeds. Go to the dollar store dollar store has the cheapest seeds anywhere in the country. Nobody knows that. I don’t know why they don’t know that. But did you plant a garden? Are you planning a garden this year? Can you plant a garden?

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I can but I won’t be this year.

Rob McNealy
You need to plant a garden. I’m gonna give you some shit about that. I think you should plant a garden. I really do. Please, little garden. Do this for me. Put your wife on. I’m just giving you shit. So Noir, where can people find out more?

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
About? Oh um yeah, we would way down the rabbit hole man, I thought we were going somewhere else. You can find me on Twitter: @InvestNoir, I N V E S T N O I R or you can check me out on Instagram at @CigarsandCrypto. Or you can listen to me on any of your podcast platforms of choice. Just search for Cigars and Crypto, or CigarsandCrypto.com.

Rob McNealy
You have the best radio voice ever. So, guys, you gotta listen to his podcast. He’s got some really, really great points out there. I really like where he’s coming from because he is my echo chamber. Thank you so much for listening this Robin Neely. Check us out on the web at Rob McNealy calm.

Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Thanks for having me.

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Kingsley Edwards – CEO of Flote Transcript

Kingsley Edwards - CEO of Flote.app

Note: This transcript was automatically generated by artificial intelligence (AI) and therefore typos may be present.

Rob McNealy
Today I am talking to Kingsley Edwards. He is the CEO and founder of float app, which is a new social media sharing platform. And I think the timing of this is great given what’s going on in the crypto world with YouTube right now. So, Kingsley, how are you today?

Kingsley Edwards – Flote.App
Doing well, just you know, little bit of rest after after yesterday, Christmas, but yeah, glad you got to be here. Thanks for having me on.

Rob McNealy
Cool. I literally laid on the beanbag for 14 hours yesterday.

Kingsley Edwards – Flote.App
Did you break a record or?

Rob McNealy
I think I got bedsores, but I don’t know if it’s a record but yeah, I kinda was a complete pig slouch, just kind of hanging out. But you know, me and my, my wife and I, I mean, we both are, we’re both co founders and Tosca, and so but we both have full time other gigs because everybody on our products is a volunteer. So it’s like, we’ve been going crazy. Just we launched this week. And I got on Main net and opened it up and got block producers on the network and stuff. So it was like literally two days before Christmas. We’re like literally been doing tech support helping people sign up and get their nodes on and stuff. So it’s been a little crazy. So we took the day off yesterday.

Kingsley Edwards – Flote.App
Yeah, well, congrats. I know that’s got to be that’s a huge feat to get over. So,

Rob McNealy
You know, when people say, Oh, you can just you know, make a blockchain just point and click on my get go do that. Let me know how that works out for you. Because, you know, it’s interesting, because, and we’re getting our topic but you know, we launched first as a token, and then we swapped and built our own chain. And it’s funny because people don’t realize how all the little things you have to do to make that work. You know, even just, how do you get your first nodes ready? How do you recruit people to set up servers to support your network in the beginning, it’s like, you know, it’s one thing if you’re just setting up a token or something on someone else’s blockchain but when you have to build up And recruit, and persuade and try to negotiate and get all sorts of, you know, people involved in your project and anyways just to take a risk of their own time and whatever money and stuff to do that that’s hard. It really is a lot of it’s a lot of work. It’s a lot of lunches and a lot of phone calls.

Kingsley Edwards – Flote.App
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I did. I did a token sale in at the, the kind of the height of the market or close to the height of the market in 2017. And yeah, I was it was even just even just doing that was just, you know, crazy. I stayed up for like, 72 hours at at the one point, I do not recommend doing that. But um, but yeah, you know, a lot of things that seem easy to others and just, you know, with technology in general, are there’s a lot happening behind the scenes that a lot of people don’t know about, so.

Rob McNealy
Absolutely. So give me a little bit of background about what you are. Sounds like you’re an entrepreneur. So how did you get involved with starting float?

Kingsley Edwards – Flote.App
Yeah. Well, so I started my first crypto startup in, in 2013 actually was a eSports Bitcoin platform where people can play against each other and popular video games for Bitcoin kind of a skill base. You know, being from Vegas, we’re just talking about I’ve always thought that and also playing video games growing up, I always thought that be interesting to kind of recreate, you know, the poker environments and with with video games and how EA Sports is is taking off. So so we we created that it was called leap coin, which later turned to leets. And then in 2015, we ended up getting some investor money from from boost VC and Tim Draper and in Vegas tech Fund, which is run by Tony Shea, and some other angels and VCs. We ended up selling that in 2017 to to a larger startup, and that’s where I actually directed their token sale and then after that, year I did some consulting for four different crypto companies and more recently we’re focused on on floats and really came about which is you know, we we, we we will first of all we’ve you know we’ve been part of the kind of the Liberty movement or what do you want to call it or or at least myself for over a decade starting with with Ron Paul back in the day and and then you know that that kind of led me to learning about Bitcoin and all this kind of stuff in the ron paul forums like in 2010, or something like that. But, but yeah, you know, so so just kind of seeing this the way things are going with social media especially like all the people getting shadow banned, banned, and demonetised especially over the last last few years, and now all of a sudden, you know, just the same that you support free speeches, you know, the mainstream narrative is saying that that’s like controversial or not not the right thing to do. So So yeah, we you know, we have a lot of friends that are that are content creators, independent journalists, on on YouTube and other platforms that have been affected by what’s going on they’ve been D monetized they’ve lost their These are people that you know, they survive off of off of YouTube monetization and in, in their, you know audience supporting them through donations and all this and we’ve seen them the struggle over the last couple of years losing anywhere from 80 to 90%. Some have been completely demonetised hundred percent of their their income just you know, overnights gone for what we feel like is really unjustified reasons. I mean, a lot of times these people don’t get responses from YouTube and Twitter and Facebook and others and and they’ll be like an email response. They’ll say, you know, a little show you’ve been kicked off or have you been banned because of and I’ll just have a blank won’t even have any from there. So it’s it’s like, you know, I think a lot of like I said, a lot of us saw this coming and we just wanted to offer just an alternative. Last year, I actually tried getting off of all kind of this decentralized platforms that are there today. And I went to various other decentralize, you know, offerings. And it was just, you know, is way too confusing. A lot of them have like a lot of these token schemes that are kind of built into just the basic like, feed and stuff like this, that they, you know, this is cool if you want to partake in that, but, but we just wanted to offer something where people can, you know, speak freely, we have chronological time timeline with no kind of deceptive algorithms deciding what content you see or interact with and engage with. And, and so yeah, so we decided to kind of, you know, dive deep into it. And in I’ve been working alongside of a lot of those friends that that have been affected by what’s going on.

Rob McNealy
So it’s float like a blockchain based app or is it not based on blockchain? Or is it crypto related? How is it kind of build what kind of platform is it on?

Kingsley Edwards – Flote.App
So right now we are we are, we are centralized? So we have plans to decentralize Over the next year, we did we went through boost again with this with this company boost VC, which is one of the leading blockchain startup accelerators in San Mateo, run by Tim Draper son, Adam Draper, who’s done a lot of great work in the space. So so we with through boost VC, we got we got actually quite a bit of credit on on various server, you know, like AWS and digitalocean, which isn’t, you know, the best place to be but as it as a scrappy startup where we want to use those those credits, until until we can’t. But we do have plans to to decentralize. We don’t we don’t. We’re not we’re looking at various technologies as far as our decentralization strategy. And we’re not quite 100% sold on a blockchain yet for for social media. There may be an opportunity to like interact with other block chains if a user does want to, but we’re looking at other other distributed ways where we can have different People partake in backing up their own content.

Rob McNealy
Well, I think that’s important. And I actually commend you on that strategy. And I think it makes more sense. Get your MVP out there, start on a centralized system, and look at where the technology is, and then adopt whatever back end that’s decentralized that you want. To me, that actually makes more sense. Because I think you probably are well aware. I mean, with the social media platform, it’s about eyeballs and audience. I mean, that’s why people are on Twitter. That’s why people are on Facebook, because that’s where all the people are. There’s lots of actual alternative media, social media sites out there now. And you know, I’m getting inundated like nobody here go to there. And it’s like, okay, but no one else is there, or there’s not as many people there or this one community like is on this platform and not on your platform. So who would you say your technology closely or is a close resemblance of are you more like a Twitter or more like a Facebook?

Kingsley Edwards – Flote.App
I feel I feel like we look more like a Twitter right now but I would say as far as features that really going for Facebook, we see a large opportunity with with both those platforms and and also including YouTube, where, especially Facebook, where, you know, there’s a lot of studies out there where 66% of Facebook users do not trust Facebook, even though they, you know, they do use it because that’s where the users are at. I don’t know, really anybody who really likes, you know, they’re the CEO Mark Zuckerberg. And so we see a large you know, an opportunity there to kind of go after that feature sets and and that’s really you know, we want to build a place where, where, you know, free speech, can I can live you can engage with you, you know, you follow who you want to follow, you can gauge who you want to do you want engage with, and in Facebook as far as, as features is kind of the most our has has a lot of features that we’d like to, to to implement. So, right now we have, you know, just kind of the social network side, we do have crypto integrated, where every every account comes with a Bitcoin BTC wallet right now. So people can with without wallets, you can you can tip people you can you can do we have a Patreon type model already built built out where you can subscribe to content creators for premium content for for whatever tier they want to set which is really cool. We have encrypted messaging. So you know again kind of going back to to Facebook and Twitter I’ve noticed over the past couple years where now it’s been made public where they actually they can and they seem like they do read your read your messages, your direct messages to other people and people don’t really realize that so, you know, we don’t we don’t want to read your messages. And that’s what we make them encrypted and peer to peer and you know, a lot of lot of other little other things where we’re just trying to make floats a friendly place for for people to you know, create a second account on there’s a lot of studies to how social media, you Users they used to have, I think was like 2.4 accounts couple years ago. Now I believe it’s closer to five. And the next two years, they’ll have up to like 10, or some of that. So we’re looking at different, like, interoperability between us and the major platforms. So to just make it easier switch to, you know, at least use us as a as an alternative.

Rob McNealy
So I have a pretty big social platform, you know, footprint on like Twitter, smaller one on Facebook, sell me on flow, why would I want to be on flow versus these other platforms?

Kingsley Edwards – Flote.App
Well, again, you know, I think you notice I I personally, very much dislike the way that Twitter and Facebook feeds been becoming more and more kind of deceptive in the way that they use their algorithms as far as the the home field and timelines. So even with Twitter, you know, you have to constantly change for me, I have to constantly change that. I want to see things chronological as from the people that I’ve seen, or that I that I follow, and and you know, it just we don’t we don’t push any information that you don’t want to see. And, and again, we don’t read your messages, respect user privacy. And we don’t, you know, we’re not out to censor us. So now that’s what we’re seeing more and more on on all the major platforms. And we don’t want to we don’t want to partake in that.

Rob McNealy
So you’re funded through boost VC. Is that where you’re getting the funding to grow this out?

Kingsley Edwards – Flote.App
Yeah, we Yeah, we receive some initial funding from from boost VC right now. We are in the middle of fundraising right now for our full seed round, but we received Yeah, we went through boost earlier this year.

Rob McNealy
So that was gonna be my next question is, I like what you’re saying. I think we need more alternatives to what we have out there. The next question is, how do you combat that network effect of the big networks? That’s the big challenge. How do you take away their market share, and what do you think your marketing strategy is going to be to onboard some of those new users and kind of pare away some of their market share?

Kingsley Edwards – Flote.App
Well, so we definitely wanted to take advantage of the way that YouTube is treating content creators, the way the distrust of Facebook and the other platforms. So that’s one of the biggest things right now we’re actually working on adding ad monetization for content creators so that we can, you know, we can provide a way for for content creators to, to join our platform, and not only you know, receive Patreon, Patreon, you know, revenue from their audience, but also tips but then also add revenue from from different ad networks. And eventually we’ll be implementing our own ad platform that’s that’s fully integrated into our platform. One thing about us as far as for content creators is that we don’t take any percentage of The payments to content creators or or just users in general. So that’s one of the things that you know, we’re really focused on to is showcasing how lightweight crypto actually has a use case here, where when I send a Super Chat, let’s say to a YouTuber, and YouTube takes 30%, or YouTube takes 45% of ad revenue from content creators, we don’t sit as a middleman, as far as you know, in terms of payments. So I think that’s one one place where we’re kind of, you know, placing our bed on and saying that, hey, you know, kind of be the old saying our content is king. And if if content creators can create an as you know, a second account on on on floats, and hey, maybe not the user base isn’t there yet. But I’m making 100% of all my tips on making 100% of my monthly subscriptions from my audience, and I’m getting a larger percentage from ad revenue. While it might make sense to try to start moving by my people over to this, this platform Where I can ultimately make more money with less followers.

Rob McNealy
So you as float up, how do you guys make money if you’re not taking a, you know, cut of the content creators, you know, earnings.

Kingsley Edwards – Flote.App
So we have for, for ad, we have two sets of ads, we have content ads that will be similar to a, it’s kind of unique actually, to we have, we have content ads. And then we have two forms of content ads. Right now, we have video ads, where it’s kind of a we’re just we’re testing this out right now with a few content creators. But a video ads are similar to the YouTube ads that you see that go before and after videos. And then post ads for content creators that can be done on any post which is kind of unique. So if a content creator just doesn’t like a normal kind of Twitter style or Facebook style post, they can have a small ad on the bottom little banner ad where they can also monetize out of that. So we have those sets of ads for content creators where they get 100%. And then we have network ads, which is kind of can be seen almost like if you think of a YouTube video page. Like the top right, they’ll have a little ad you know, post up on the top right. So we’ll we’ll take the percentage off that and then we’re also going to be implementing network ads within within the feed of users. So we’re yeah we’re going to be you know, mostly focused on on ads ad revenue, we are going to implement a premium subscription where will provide ad free experience for users? And we’re hoping that you know, eventually once once we get more more and more content creators on our platform and higher tiers as far as how many people follow them that that eventually you know, we’ll be able to really monetize it monetize it well with with the ads that we’re showing that we profit off of.

Rob McNealy
Very cool. So with a lot of the so a lot of what the the normal big giants in this space. Some of their excuses for censorship and and you know, D platforming people is one they’ll say they’re combating hate or in some other People will say they’re just trying to cover their tail legally in case someone you know, does something stupid on their platform, so they don’t directly get sued themselves for hosting this content. So if you’re a centralized and you’re gonna allow free speech, are there any limits to that? Or are you going to have some basic rules? How does that kind of work? And if you allow free speech, unfettered free speech, are you worried about liability for your group?

Kingsley Edwards – Flote.App
So we do, you know, we are a were a US Corporation, we do have to follow us laws. So if there are things that that uh, that we find or others bring to our attention, or if you know, there’s one of the alphabet, US government agencies that you know, request something or something we you know, we’re not going to go to prison over something over a social media post or something like this. We’ll we’ll do what we have will only what we have to do, but we’re not going to go out of our way to censor people for no reason. Which seems to be where all the other platforms are going. When it comes to you know, the story of you know, advertisers and all this kind of you know, seems like they’re they’re kind of pulling the strings and all this you know, I believe that I believe that that that is the case in some circumstances but at the same time it’s it’s interesting to see that you know, especially YouTube is using that as an excuse why they’re censoring people yet all the major other you know, the the mainstream media that’s that’s on YouTube are talking about the same things that all these independent creators are talking about maybe maybe in different ways and you know, this and that but but you know, they do cover a lot of the same topics that YouTube says is controversial and all this yet YouTube doesn’t take down you know, Fox News, CNBC, talking about crypto, CNN talking about Epstein, all this types of all this type of stuff. So so you know, we’re going to we’re going to test out the waters we’re going to we’re going to roll with the punches, but also Yes, we want to we want to support free speech and we feel that what’s going on right now. It’s just it’s there’s there’s something, you know, seems a little sinister, but happening behind the scenes. And it seems to be maybe politically motivated or whatever. But, but we’re, you know, we just we want to be we’re just really rewinding the clock, just about three, three to five years of where social media was why YouTube became so great why Facebook became so popular and Twitter became so popular. And so we just, we just want to basically, you know, be be what it was before and offer, offer that to our users and respect our users.

Rob McNealy
And I think a lot of people want that. And I think on the other hand, I think there’s also a big market for curated content as well. And I can see both sides of it. The the anarchist part of me is like, you know, what people should do without the want to do, but, you know, if they want to do it on their own platform, you know, if they want to do it their way and not my way on my platform, then they go build their own and you did so I kind of like that and I’m actually very interested to see where this positive plays out for you. You guys float. But on the other hand, there’s a lot of bullshit out there. I mean, there’s a lot of stupid people there a lot of assholes. And, you know, I kind of look at it like, we have a forum, for instance, with Tusk. And we haven’t we have rules in our forum and our groups in our telegram, because we believe like, we don’t allow certain types of spam because we find that spam does make the community suck, you know, all these online groups, once they stop having moderators and admins is just the nonsense takes over. And I’m just putting out my little brainstorming hat here. And it’s like, Okay, if everybody on your in your neighborhood turns out to be a jerk, and people don’t necessarily honest, is that a great neighborhood anymore? And I and I, and I wrestle with these kind of, you know, internally I wrestle with these kinds of, you know, thoughts philosophically, because I always want to weigh my own freedom. My pro freedom orientation with people are still stupid and jerks. He helped Part of the world, right? You got to kind of look, there’s both there. And I do think there’s a nuance and it’s interesting, especially with a lot of folks in the Liberty movements, whatever movement you want to call it, that have a hard time with that nuance that, you know, just because you can be a jerk doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to be a jerk all the time. And, you know, I heard voices coming out and this is supposed to be a new social media thing out on the iOS network, and supposedly it’s everybody’s doxxed and I’m mixed on and I’m actually interested to see how it works. So for instance, on and to me, I docs myself a long time ago, I’ve always been Rob McNealy and everything I don’t have. I don’t have any sock accounts. I am myself out there. So I’m always kind of flying without a net. But I can tell you Kingsley, you know, I’ve had a lot of assholes take advantage of that trolls, doing crazy stuff. And it’s like, oh, you’re you’re an anonymous avatar. And you You’re going to be a jerk. I’m doxxed. You know, I’m myself I’m I’m a target. And, and I and I think there’s a weird trade off there because I one part of me, a lot of people are really anti social non civilized because of that anonymity. On the other hand, I always think that while we still need to have that ability to be completely private, because maybe someone needs to be a Hong Kong protester, right. And so, I don’t know the balance. And, you know, libertarians will have this, you know, they’ll they’ll shred me on this, because I’m not quite 100% pure, but I’m like, you know, but sometimes people lie and say things that aren’t true on the internet because of their anonymous. You know, avatar, what have you I mean, what do you think about that?

Kingsley Edwards – Flote.App
Right? So I mean, if you’re, you know, if you’re a public person and you have a public profile, then you know, you’re going to run into this stuff, no doubt, and then it’s up to you to curate, block or mute people who you know, want to are trying to harass you or engage with you that you don’t want to You know, that you don’t want to engage with. So you know, I would say, if you if you’re really against people, you know if you know, coming after you or doing this doing that, then make your account private and then choose who you know who can who can really engage with you, if you’re willing to take the risk of being becoming public and you want to, you know, promote your voice and you want to grow your audience a little bit more easily through through a public profile, then, you know, you take on that risk yourself, and you have to kind of deal with the things that come at you. It’s a, you know, I think it’s no different the online identity versus the real life identity. You know, there really isn’t much of a difference between besides people being are able to be anonymous on are more anonymous, I’d say, are easier to be anonymous online. But But again, you know, there’s there’s there’s interesting features that we’re building out, like shareable mutes and blocklist where let’s say there’s a full list of people. That’s have shown of users that have shown to be, you know, I don’t know, kind of a difficult to deal with online. Well, you know, if there’s an easy way to, to share these lists, and you know, with one click being able to block a full list of users that have engaged in this type of behavior, then, you know, let’s let’s make that easier. Let’s use technology to make make our lives easier, easier, not only to engage with people, but also to disengage with people.

Rob McNealy
And I think that’s actually an amazing idea. You know, I know I’m saying I understand blocking, and I block liberally and I have a pretty thick skin and I me, and I’ve been out there for a long time. So I really normally don’t care when someone says dumb shit, because that’s just the internet. I did have a guy who’s actually kind of pro popular, but he’s, you know, anonymous, and he runs a podcast and he’s a crypto maximalist of one flavor and a year ago we had a problem and he just didn’t like my project because it’s not Bitcoin. Let’s just put it out there. just you know, he’s like anything that’s not Bitcoin is a scam. And I’m like, Okay, well that’s not true. Okay? A Scam is is accusing someone of a fraud or a crime and a violation than happy and a B. And you know, and you know, it started coming up in the search engine results and I’m like, okay, he wrote a blog post and all the saying that I’m a scam and I’m like, Okay, one I’ve never taken anybody’s money. I’ve done everything I said I would do I created something that we gave away that became valuable. That’s not a scam. That’s a gift. But it was interesting. Like he was very toxic and I ignored him for a year but I had to deal with and deal with some of the, the SEO Fallout, right? Because marketing is kind of a thing. And and I called him up and I’ve figured out who he was, I did some digging, and I’m pretty good at finding out some things that I actually know who he is now, like everything about him personally. And I emailed him and I used his first name and now he’s got a public email just for his avatar, you know, and I emailed him by his First Name, and last name, and said maybe we could have a phone call. And we did. We had an hour long conversation, he still hates my project. And I said, That’s okay. But don’t accuse me of being, you know, a fraud or criminal. You can say you hate my project. I don’t have a problem with that. But let’s just be honest. And, you know, here’s the thing, Kingsley, if I hadn’t figured out who he was, he wouldn’t have cooperated with me, because he felt protected by that anonymity. And he felt that he could break the law and call somebody things that aren’t true. And I think, you know, that’s the problem I see out there and I do understand where some platforms come from on that. And and to me, it’s like, you know, sometimes people just aren’t nice. And are mean because of that. And I think that’s the the downside of the whole keyboard warrior thing. But.

Kingsley Edwards – Flote.App
They’re going to be perfect. Just like in in you know, IRL real life. It’s never going to be perfect no matter what you’re going to have people out there that are that hate you and Whatever. And so, you know, and then we’ll we’ll continue to see this you know, I think a lot what’s what’s interesting with crypto in particular is that we’re seeing a lot of people that that were Bitcoin maximalists starting to at least be more open minded to new projects. And I never you know, I, I was more of a I would say a Bitcoin maximalist years ago, but I would never hate other other projects out there because competition is good. And you know, we’re really actually a big one we’re seeing that that as far as advancement and and you know that the protocol and so with that we’re seeing a lot of other protocols that are kind of blowing past that as far as things that you can do on chain. So, so, you know, I think competition is good, whether it’s social media, whether it’s money, I mean, obviously, and and really, you know, let’s let’s really keep our eyes on the target, which is the, what we’re creating is an alternative to central banks and then felician and, you know, this this kind of crazy system that That’s that we’ve been born in.

Rob McNealy
Lost you. Can you hear me? Can you hear me? I think I lost you, buddy. Hello, there you are. You’re back.

Kingsley Edwards – Flote.App
Yeah, I lost you too.

Rob McNealy
Having some bandwidth problems on your side. I think keeps saying that you have low bandwidth. I hate when you have low bandwidth. You got low tea or something?

Kingsley Edwards – Flote.App
Yeah, it’s weird cuz I have really good internet. Anyway, I’m not sure right cut off but.

Rob McNealy
Okay. So I’ll just pick it up. You know, I think I think competition is excellent too. And I think so the crypto crypto space as well. I’m an entrepreneur and I actually am kind of late to crypto. I don’t click came to I don’t claim to be like an early adopter at all. I’ve only been in this space a couple of years. And it surprises me because I view everything as an entrepreneur and I always look at opportunities and you know mitigating risk and flaws and markets and that’s kind of how I view crypto I just see it even if it’s decentralized, it’s still a market it’s still a product and service and it’s interesting with like, the old maximalists that are so defensive about Bitcoin it’s typically been you know, I think you’d agree it’s typically Bitcoin maximalist it seemed to be the most toxic maximalist. But I think I have a theory on why I think it is, I think it’s that these guys have been like, you know, singing the tune of Bitcoin for so long that it’s become kind of their personal identity. And I think that the competition to Bitcoin and some of it is a lot more innovative and even not only on the tech side, but on the governance side on the speed side on the scalability side are far better.

Kingsley Edwards – Flote.App
I use to use Bitcoin all the time to pay people you know with $20 Bitcoin on on Reddit and you know yeah the speed was was great you know and now like I wait for 20-30 minutes confirmation for this small transactions it’s actually very frustrating.

Rob McNealy
Right, and so then something and I think it just comes down to what the maximalists is that no one likes their baby being called ugly and and that’s what it’s about and I think the the the maximum was just fear the competition that maybe they backed the wrong horse at some point..

Kingsley Edwards – Flote.App
..to kind of reverse their opinion.

Rob McNealy
It’s human nature and no one wants to admit they’re wrong or their their baby’s ugly. It’s like, but to me, it’s funny because like in my own portfolio, I mean, I own Bitcoin, I own a Etheoreum. I have my own take somewhere. I think they’re going to be an end up and I think some things I think it’s, you know, I can’t make a decision yet because I think there’s a lot of things moving in This space, but I think I have my own theories on how crypto will be adopted. And that’s why we launched our own project anyway. I mean, that is why we launched our own project, because I think that some of the other big projects out there are kind of going the wrong direction. We’ll see if I’m right or wrong. We’re going to work really hard to figure that out. But I think that’s the same thing with social media, right? I mean, social media proved to be a thing, people like it, people like communicating digitally with each other. They like to be able to communicate with groups, they like to communicate with people on the other part of the planet. Social media is a good tool. The question is now, the governance of social media has kind of gone downhill, pretty bad over the last five, six years. And I think this is why I’m excited to you know, talk to you about what you’re doing with slope because to me, we need competition to kind of hopefully push back, you know, on some of those major social media platforms that in my opinion, are abusing their users.

Kingsley Edwards – Flote.App
Yeah, no, absolutely. I’m not sure why I cut off earlier, but I was just saying that let’s let’s remember, you know, whether it’s Bitcoin or other technology, but specifically with Bitcoin and money, you know, it’s not that, you know, it’s great that all these different cryptocurrencies and blockchains are competing against each other, define what what is going to serve the market best. But let’s remember that, that what we’re what we’re trying to replace is central banks. And so just because something isn’t as decentralized as this or this and that or you know, like, let’s focus on on what what the actual goal is, is that’s creating a better technology for money and in whether something let’s in you know, it should it should work as good as as the best thing out there. So, that’s what I like to support. And that’s what you know, kind of the, the foundation is set for as far as social media with flow, is that you know, okay, right now we may be we may be centralized, but hey, we support free speech, you’re not going to get thrown in 30 days. Facebook Jail for posting a meme or you know, you we’re not going to suspend your your Twitter account because you you work for anti war calm. So you know, it’s just like, hey, let’s support things that, you know, may might not be the most decentralized or the most, you know, in our case libertarian thing, but let’s focus on the things that hey, maybe it has easy, good, great UI UX, you know, it’s it offers an alternative, and maybe, you know, they’re not they have they don’t have all the features yet, but on the roadmap, you know, they’re playing this and that and, you know, great team and good backers, and great community. So that’s just that’s just kind of where I’ve gone from, and I used to be kind of one of those more things like, Oh, this isn’t as decentralize or censorship resistant and as is that but, but, but, you know, I would say I’m more of like a kind of a incremental approach myself, where incremental ism has been used against us for, you know, years and years in the past, but now It may be maybe to get the masses to adopt certain things we don’t need to go fully you know crypto anarchists maybe we can just kind of incrementally get there and just use technology as as a way where indeed show people that hey technology can be used for you know obviously obviously very good things that they can they can help us move money you know communicate with each other.

Rob McNealy
For other you’re singing my song you know I say the same thing like with Tusk were delegated proof of stake chain we are we are not quote unquote. So decentralized is say maybe one of the bigger block chains out there, though, the definition of what decentralize This seems to change a lot but here’s the thing. The masses don’t give a shit about something being decentralized. They want something that works. They don’t care that PayPal centralized they don’t get a Venmo was centralized. They don’t care that you know, authorize net is centralized or visa, they don’t care. They want their problem solved. And so it’s funny when you know a lot of the Maxis will argue about Well, it’s not decentralized. And I’m like, okay, but these people don’t care about that. But how about, but what would be better would would a local credit union one cryptocurrency or would a local credit union be a preferred business vendor than maybe a major national bank? You know, there’s a trade off there. They’re very different. I mean, I use I personally like credit unions, I don’t have account at a major bank, because I like the fact that I can vote for the board of my credit union. And to me, I still have more control over that relationship with the credit union because I can go talk to the vice president pretty easily if I want to I have actually. Whereas with the major bank, I don’t have that. So to me, that’s that whole spectrum, right. And it seems like a lot of people that are more libertarian minded seem to have a real difficult time with incremental and, you know, spectrum kind of things. That nuance right. And I agree with you and so what tasks are like, I’ll give you I’m Neil saying the same thing you are as over the top We’re trying to focus on going out and getting people interested when crypto as something that’s going to solve a problem. And then in our roadmap long term, we’re building out more resiliency and more, you know, redundancy into our network. And that’s, we got a big plan on that, if we’re successful with the first part. You know, I think it’s like this, and I think you’re doing the same thing, right? You want to build out, look, we just need to get something out there. So people can start, you know, communicating in a way without immediately being just ghosted. Right. And then you build out those other features that you want. I mean, Facebook can build all this stuff overnight, right? YouTube didn’t build that stuff all overnight, right? I mean, it takes time. You got to have a plan. And you know what, it takes a dedicated team, a dedicated visionary to grow that right and unfortunately, and this is my criticism of really hardcore Bitcoin maximalist and decentralized so that I don’t believe that a lot of these decentralized cryptocurrencies have these structure to get adoption, because they don’t have anybody out there guiding it. And you don’t have those visionaries out there that are out there talking to end users? Well, yeah.

Kingsley Edwards – Flote.App
Yeah, that’s one of the interesting things too about a lot of these dissension, you know, dials are decentralized organizations is that I have no problem with actually centralized leadership, as long as the leadership is doing something that the users want them to do, or, you know, actually, actually doesn’t really matter. You know, let the leadership do what they want to do. And, and hopefully, the leaders are making the right the right moves, where people will follow them. I mean, humans are made up of leaders and followers and then you know, just depends on the different aspects of your life and the different things that you buy or interact with. So so you know, I, there’s, for most things in my life, like I want to be able to follow to trust someone and follow a leader, that that, that I understand where they’re, where they’re going in their vision and all this when when we talk about all these kind of decentralized organizations and all this. I mean, really, that’s that’s actually like, you know, democracy which actually is one of the worst forms of governance in in organizations. I mean, it’s basically communism. So why well, why would we want that we want we want actually good leaders that are that are doing good things that we can we can follow versus, you know, direct democracy or communism.

Rob McNealy
Yeah, it’s interesting going from a token that we launched, and we gave it away. I mean, we launched it for free via faucet, so we never sold coins or tokens. But it’s interesting going to a project that actually has on chain governance this week, which was the big switch, right? We basically we gave up all this control. And I can tell you as an entrepreneur, that was hard. Yeah. Because as an entrepreneur, you want to control your baby, you spend two years busting your ass kind of trying to create it and then you push it out of the nest and hope that all the vultures out there, don’t eat your baby. But I think you’re Right, I think, you know, good, good leadership is hard. And especially in startups. I mean, the reason people love Elon Musk so much is because he’s rare that Ilan musk of the world are rare that they have that vision and the ability to execute on that vision. And you do need that, I think, if anything, at least, to design the system to design the protocol. And I think with the centralized projects, My take is that no one’s marketing them very well. And no one’s out there talking to end users, no one’s building them, like you would a normal project, or you know, service which means to me, I’m more of a sales and marketing guy, I don’t build I don’t build something anymore until I have a customer. And to me, when you build something, you should be building something for an intended customer. And if you’re just building something and hope there’s a customer, I just think that’s that’s a recipe for failure. And I think with what you’re doing with float, you like look, we see we see a gap in the market, right? You there are people that are really concerned learned about this there are people being before in the of the platform, and you’re trying to fill that gap. And I think that’s why I think you have a good chance of being successful with flow is Is that your understanding that you’re building something to solve an existing and recognized problem with a lot of crypto, they don’t solve any problem. Any buddies recognize problem. If you look at most kryptos do not solve a problem for anybody. They actually create more problems for most people, for the average person. crypto creates problems, it doesn’t erase them. And I think that the crypto projects in the future that are going to be the most successful at cracking that whole mass adoption nut are going to be the ones that are the best marketed. Yeah, and whatever that looks like.

Kingsley Edwards – Flote.App
Yeah, yeah. I definitely, you know, Yeah, I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. And I think that for us, you know, we’re right now we do, we do support BTC but we’re looking to add a lot of the other major all coins and trying to just make it you know, as easy as possible for users to not only buy and sell digital contents on our platform, but next year quarter one, we’re looking to also start a marketplace as well, so that people can actually sell real, you know, physical items or even services if they want to. So we’re really focused on making crypto, you know, very user friendly. And that’s one of the things that, you know, I’ve lived off crypto actually for four years this year. Unfortunately, I’ve had to deal more in VR than ended up in banks that I’d like to but but you know, I see there’s, you know, I truly believe that cryptocurrency is the future of money it’s definitely a better money. Yes, there’s a speculative speculation side to it. But But you know, if you do make the right choices over time, it looks like that you can potentially make a lot of money on cryptocurrency and in just but but there’s still a lack of ways to use cryptocurrency and and I think the future of that is not only through all the Other you know, companies and corporations and services where you can already already use cryptocurrency, but enabling people to we see the gig economy growing and enabling people to use crypto on a peer to peer basis in a marketplace where they can sell, buy and sell digital and physical goods and services is the future that, you know, it won’t be the kind of this this full kind of crypto anarchist dream won’t happen overnight. But, but but through, you know, through through proper, proper implementation is very achievable because I think the end result is a more more peaceful, cheaper, a faster way to to do business and then communicate with people. And I think that that you know, the

Rob McNealy
Oh, we dropped out again. I lost you again. Right at the end Now you’re back

Kingsley Edwards – Flote.App
Hello.

Rob McNealy
Oh there you are you’re back now.

Kingsley Edwards – Flote.App
I you know it’s weird because I don’t have issues I’ve had like one issue with zoom before but my on my internet is really good so I don’t know what’s going on

Rob McNealy
Oh we’re close enough but I think you’re right i think it is the future as well and you know I really enjoyed our time today and I want you to keep me up to date on when you got things rolling out with slope because I I think this is something the market needs.

Kingsley Edwards – Flote.App
I really I really appreciate you having me on and appreciate the chat.

Rob McNealy
Where can people find out more?

Kingsley Edwards – Flote.App
Find us at Flote.app F L O T E dot A P P or JoinFlote.com. Again Flote is spelled a little differently and and also my I’m King King on Flote. So I was able to grab that username somehow. But But yeah, so you can you go to Flote.app/King. That’s where I post most of my stuff. And we actually haven’t so that you can like share to Twitter and all this kind of stuff we are going to be implementing so that you can share to Facebook too. So we’re trying to make it as easy, like I said, as easy as people to switch over, and at least create a second account on Flote.

Rob McNealy
Perfect. Kingsley, thank you so much for coming on the show today. And if you like this content, folks, make sure you subscribe to our social media platform channel that you can find listed at RobMcNealy.com.

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