Entrepreneurship
Ruben Merre – NGRAVE Transcript
Note: This transcript was automatically generated by artificial intelligence (AI) and therefore typos may be present.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Hey folks, Rob McNealy here and today I’m talking to Ruben Mira. He is the CEO of engrave, and they got a really interesting product coming out a new type of hardware wallet, which I think all my crypto listeners are really going to be excited about. So Reuben, welcome to the show. How are you today?
Ruben Merre – NGRAVE
I’m feeling sunny. Oh, good.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Well, very good. I’m excited to hear about what your new product is about. So today where where are we talking to you from?
Ruben Merre – NGRAVE
Belgium and more specifically, a very tiny village in the countryside. Where I’m hiding from movies?
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Well, I can understand, I think that’s a good thing. I’ve only been, I only landed in the airport in Brussels. I’ve only been about through Belgium. I’ve never really been in Belgium. But it’s on my bucket. It’s on my bucket list they used to, I used to live in Ireland. And then I’ve been to Switzerland and a bunch of other places in Europe over the years, but I actually have never really spent any time in Belgium. And it’s something I regret. But I think after all, this COVID stuff is kind of behind us. I’m going to probably take some time and do some traveling again, because I’m having that itch to go and get out of town, so to speak. So for my my listeners are a lot of entrepreneurs and not just crypto people. So we always like to talk about the the business piece the the entrepreneurial piece. So tell us a little bit about your background and how did you get started and what did you do before you did engrave?
Ruben Merre – NGRAVE
Yeah, so I started off studying business engineering. It’s something that doesn’t really exist, I think the other side of the of the world, but you can see it as a combination of basically during an engineering degree. And you add all of these business school classes on top. So, you know, like an MBA this they call an MBA Master’s in business engineering. So I did that for five years, got my masters, and then I started working. And I started working at Deloitte. So probably it’s a company you might still know, in the US. So I worked there as a strategy consultant for two years. And I also realized that during the, during my job, I could actually keep studying. So I’m kind of the lifelong learning tab, where I basically tried to do it an additional postgraduate degree every year. And I did that, I would say, up until the moment that I started in grief, because when I started in grief, that was really the moment that I just couldn’t combine it anymore. Nevertheless, I tried to read one book a week so that 50 books a year or so is still within my goals and I’m still achieving that. So yeah, I would say after after Deloitte, which was strategy consulting, like for CXO level in companies, I liked it, but for me it was most it was a bit too. But the organization was a bit too big and I didn’t feel that entrepreneurial vibe. So I joined a smaller management consulting company. Basically, it started at the time, I was one of the first 10 people. And eventually it made me I had a lot of liberty and freedom to help the company grow. So I went to Italy, I set up the Italian branch, I went to Germany set up the German branch, and I actually lived in different countries during my life also during my studies, so for example, in Spain and Mexico, so I basically mastered six languages professionally, and I could actually leverage that to help the company expand in all of these different countries. And let’s say a couple of years later and being a business in several countries, we kind of sold the business to cognizance, also all of those big behemoths. And I myself, actually, so I was a management consultant and innovation consultant. But I was in a unique seat, let’s say to choose a bit my projects. And I like to do those that were more like entrepreneurial. So in the beginning. So basically in parallel with my job, I launched the first automated investment platform in Belgium. It’s something that in the US is known as Robo advisory I don’t know if you’ve ever heard about that basically, basically means that you fill in sort of a questionnaire to determine what your risk versus adversities. And then based on that there are all these algorithms that work for you every day and they kind of rebalance your portfolio continuously to make sure you have the best portfolio that taking care of your risk and at the same time maximizing the return even that risk. So I built the first platform like that in Belgium. Then I also scaled it to A couple of other countries, and eventually one of the big financial players. They hired me to set a bollock a whole new business unit that was totally dedicated to algorithmic trading, automated investment platforms. And I did that for two year, two years. So I let the whole program there. And that was just before I started in grief. And I was supposed to become, let’s say, the piano leader of that, of that block. But the moment that we were starting to engrave I realized that the potential is so huge that I basically decided to completely shift everything. So I was actually not not really in the blockchain space before. I started in grief, just a little bit. And but nowadays, obviously, it’s the exact opposite. Now I live and breathe blockchain and crypto and the security some really excited that we can announce that in less than a month we will actually be launching this beautiful product.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
So how long have you been in the crypto space?
Ruben Merre – NGRAVE
I’ve been in the crypto space Since the top of the market, so I joined when I think Bitcoin was just around floating around $19,000.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
So fairly new, we actually I got into crypto probably not that much before that either, as well. So I’m not going to give anybody a hard time. We jumped right in with launching our project, right? Like literally New Year’s Day of 2018 is when we launched our test project. So it’s like, yeah, I can understand anything in there that that, so to speak. So I’m telling you about engrave. What do you what are you doing with engrave?
Ruben Merre – NGRAVE
Yeah, so I had to say, for example, my founders have been in the space way longer than me, gave you, for example, has been in the space since 2013. And so he was also one of those victims of Mount Gox where they lost 850 thousand bitcoins in total, a lot less.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
That’s expensive.
Ruben Merre – NGRAVE
Yeah. And the thing is that in 2016, he did an ICO which is projects. The risk 76,000 ether, so respectable amount I would say. And in 2017, they, he opened up the smart contract balance of his company, and everything was gone. So everything was stolen, hacked, empty balance. And you can imagine that the moment you do that in front of your computer, you’re extremely shocked. And they beat me it was 44,000 aetherium that they lost. And it wasn’t a parity hack. It’s one of those more famous hacks in the crypto history. And basically, he got his head together with a couple of other white hat hackers. And what they did is they automated the heck, they attacked themselves 500 other projects, and they stole $200 million from these projects. And obviously, they did that with all the best intentions, basically, to protect these guys from the bad hackers. And so eventually they gave back this $200 million worth of crypto obviously with the let’s say, the welder side note that if the Police would have gotten before they gave it back here they would they would probably be in prison right now. And that’s also a bit like Genesis story of engrave. So Xavier eventually became CTO of that project. He became extremely passionate about security. And when I joined the space, which was actually fairly later, so in 2018, I did realize quite quickly that there were some really big issues going on in the in the industry. And so the three of us basically brainstorms on Okay, let’s assume that we have our very first or very last Bitcoin, let’s say we have 100 Bitcoin each, and we have to put it somewhere where we would completely trust that it would still be there in the next day, we opened up the wallet, and we just couldn’t find an answer to that. So what we decided to do at that very moment in April 2018, was let’s build that solution that’s built the best security solution in the world for crypto. Have you understood, obviously That just the three of us, we would never be able to do that, or pull that off just by ourselves. So we Ghana went looking for the best players in the world for their specific niche. And we took two months to build our own prototype, we built it on the Raspberry Pi, we took the time as well to, let’s say, make a business pitch and so on. And we went knocking on the door of the world’s leading research and development Institute’s I make and they are so the r&d leader there for nano electronics. And to just give you like one, one example, in 2018, the tape the first atom size chip to the first chip in the world size of an atom three nanometers big they made it and so we went knocking on their door and we said hey, we are looking for a good partner to build this with. And they also have happened to have a tech acceleration program, one of the top five in the world and so they said Okay, let’s let’s, let’s go for it. Let’s put you in the program. Let’s see how it goes. And after a couple of months, they also realized that actually, we were really not kidding around. And the the approached us with the ask, can we co develop this with you guys. And as from that moment, so let’s see, Summer 2018, we basically have been in a code Development Partnership with ionic. Whereas the IP, the intellectual property still remains fully. There are sort of three of us. That’s just a, let’s say, the start of the story that I guess you have any questions for me?
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
I got a few. So how are you funding this? Did you did you go and do a raise somewhere VC funded or did you sell fund in bootstrap?
Ruben Merre – NGRAVE
Yeah, so we are really, really conscious of the fact that dilution is the last thing you wanna you want to have in the company. So what we did today, and we’re actually pretty proud of that is we were able to raise all the money. We needed to do this without having to go to VC. So what did we do, we got a little bit of an investment in from the very beginning from ionic itself, then we basically got a bank to bank us up, let’s say in that, simply put, we got a small Angel round in the beginning with a couple of business angels. And eventually, we also got European Commission backing this, the Belgian government backing us, and even the web three foundation. And right now we have, let’s say, a modest amount of convertible notes running, we have raised quite a bit of money and more than a million, let’s say to keep it simple and still a bit enigmatic, but So our idea was we have to first do a sales round. And after that sales round, we can basically validate the demands. That’s when we want to do around and right now we are three weeks away from the start of that sales round. So we will be launching on Indiegogo, the 20 Sixth of May. And there you will be able to buy our engraves yogurt and Griffin combo solution at 50% discount on the very first day. And after that Thursday then obviously the discount will decrease gradually or the price will increase gradually. And for us it has been quite the roller coaster, let’s say to get to this point to build something so secure that is in hardware and security and crypto. It’s like the worst three niches in the world put together for an entrepreneur. But we so we basically made it this far and now it’s about getting those sales and then after that we already have a crowdfunding in place. So we will likely do that first. So get a bit more debt and then we will go for a round. So Alright, these to do a first big round by the end of 2020.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
So I definitely see that ease of use and crypto security are pretty vital, especially for mass adoption and and I’m not just talking Kaster. I’m a co founder of a community crypto project. So I’m always, you know, trying to figure out what would make it easier for the artists, our community to, you know, get pushed out to the mainstream, and how do we protect those people? So, tell me about the product. What makes the engrave wallet better than other options that are on the market now?
Ruben Merre – NGRAVE
Yes, well, there are actually many, many different innovations that we bring and retract, we’re going to try to spoon feed these to the markets. Because what we did and I think it’s also something that is different from all the other players is we don’t consider security as similar as all the others do. So if you think about it, in our opinion, security is not a secure crypto exchange. Security is not a secure hardware wallet. Security is a end to end approach where you think of what’s the first step until what’s the very last step and the first step is how do I create a private key or let’s say, a crypto wallet in a completely secure way. The last step is what if tomorrow I pass away? How can my family get access to my crypto in a secure way? and everything in between? So what we did is we we thought initially about, okay, how are keys generated? And we understood that actually already there, there were a couple of issues. So we resolve those issues with a couple of innovations. One of them is called the engrave perfectly. So we actually step away from the mnemonic seed phrases, we support them, so you can still use them, you can still make one but we actually introduce a whole new key, and we use that key throughout the entire lifecycle of let’s say, your cryptocurrencies. So, if we if we start at the very beginning, we have three products. The first one is the angry zero hardware wallets. So what is it it is a touchscreen device, it is one for example. And we build it from scratch together with amongst others I’m McKesson, world leader in nanotechnology, to make sure that every single detail about security user’s experience was thought about and was integrated in the in the circuitry of the chip of the electronic circuitry boards and everything else. But so I would say if he would summarize it, so we are an end to end solution, we have a offline hardware wallet. And we have something to replace paper wallets in case you lose your hardware wallet. And we also have an app to take care of the last mile communication with the blockchain. But if we start with this beautiful thing here, so first of all, it is 100% offline, meaning you will never need to connect it to a computer to transactions or anything else. So there is no USB required, there is no 4g Wi Fi, Bluetooth, anything like that. There simply is a simple on and off button on the side. You turn it on, and you can do your thing. And if you need to do, let’s say a transaction or sync and accounts, you just create the QR codes on the screen. And you can scan that with your app. QR codes, the ones we make will never contain any information on the private keys. So obviously, the private key is the most important thing of your wallets. We make it offline, we never expose it. So there are basically zero remote attack vectors. Nobody can attack this device because there simply is no way to make a connection to it. For us, that was the first thing we needed to do bring everything offline. The second thing we did was we made this device physically tamper proof, because one of the questions is what if somebody finds my device? We military grade tamper proof does they say I find it a bit not I don’t find it very nice words military grade. So I would say we have put in place several cumulative layers of anti tampering to make sure that if even at some points you get that far the device will know it’s under attack, it will bite the keys. And just to be sure, we introduce something entirely new as well, which is the high security certification. Any of these wallets has ever gotten, Ill said. So, to put that a bit in contrast, banks and governments have on average five or six out of the seven levels, there are a ledger nano x, for example has five on a secure element. We have seven on this on the secure firmware. So if you try to attack this device, it is one of the most difficult things you will probably have to do in your life. And this thing is is the only one that has this L seven certification in the whole blockchain world. So that’s how serious we take your security. And obviously then we have the ease of use parts that comes to mind.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
So tell me about how I would physically use that. So you have this. It looks like a slick little device. I got some pictures ahead of time and, and I think the interface looks really, really good. So do I need to For instance, if I’m going to go shopping and I want to go to a retailer, do I need to take this device with me every time everywhere I go?
Ruben Merre – NGRAVE
Well, the use case of a hardware wallet is basically for your huddle part of your portfolio. So if you think about you, let’s say your traditional wallet, your traditional fiat money, you have a current accounts, let’s say 10, maybe 20% of your money. And then 80% or more of all your money is actually somebody in a savings account or an investment account. And hardware wallets were invented to take care of the parts that is long term. So basically, what you normally do is you put in a USB stick in your computer, which has which specific security protocols, and you can send your crypto to the accounts on the device. By doing so, you basically put them offline and you put them away for a longer period. And anything you need to do transactions with you can keep that on your exchange account, or let’s say on a software wallet app that you take with you into a shop. So you wouldn’t need the hardware wallets, per se. And so let’s say that for us, obviously the use case is exactly the same. So the ID or the intention of a hardware wallet is not to take it with you. But because it is so variable, basically, it’s a pocket size. You could have, for example, two of these wallets one year to keep at home, and one that you can have with you and with which you could, in fact, go and purchase stuff in the shop. It is not our intended use case. But you can always you can always do so. But we don’t really recommend it. I think the best thing you can do with your current account is just have it on your app or have the money in your portfolio, in cash, and just be that way. The only thing is you will be risking, let’s say a small portion of your money, because it can be hacked. It is online.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
I couldn’t agree more. So you say you’re going to be launching this in three weeks. Oh, where will it be launched? Is it going to be in Europe first or will be able to be purchased by say Americans or what’s the first target markets that you’re going to be launching.
Ruben Merre – NGRAVE
Yep, no, everybody will be able to purchase it. Because we’re actually doing it through Indiegogo. So you know, Kickstarter is one of those big crowdfunding platforms. Indiegogo is more or less the same size, or at least in the same year. But they’re mostly focused on not just hardware, like, let’s say, backpacks with more like hardware technology. So basically exactly the niche we are in. It’s a huge platform, it’s worldwide. So it doesn’t really matter from where you are buying. You can buy from wherever you want. And for us, it’s it gives this extra interesting dimension. Because if there is, let’s say, in the Philippines, a huge number of people who actually love waterfalls, it’s something we might not know today. They can, they can reveal themselves. And we have some sort of a pull strategy where the customer can tell us, hey, you exist, we want one of these we want them to and if you would say apart from that Indiegogo strategy, our main goal would be in the first place to go for Europe and Northern America and then expand from there from there.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Well, very cool. Ruben, where can people find out more about your new engrave wallet?
Ruben Merre – NGRAVE
Well, you have the website, which is very straightforward. Engrish mg R a v.io. If you add slash like a backslash and then subscribe, you can subscribe right now to the waiting list to select your shirt you can get 50% off on the day that we launched on the 26th of May. And we actually also have a competition going on right now a giveaway, where if you enter it you have you will be able to win one of 10 potential combos so the hardware wallets and also our backup solution. That will be you can you can enter the competition until somewhere like the week of the 20th.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Wonderful, Ruben, thank you so much for coming on the show today. I think our listeners are going to have to take a look at what you’re doing with the engrave wallet. And I really do appreciate all your time. I think you’ve been very informative and I’m always active To see about new technology and solutions for safe storage of crypto assets and, and it looks like this is going to be a winner. I can’t wait to get my hands on one myself.
Ruben Merre – NGRAVE
Yeah, definitely buy one or read one if you can. Right now is really the time for all of that.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
I will try my hand. All right, thank you so much Ruben. This is Rob McNealy. Thank you for listening. Folks check sent to the web at RobMcNealy.com and we’ll catch you next time.
Episode Links
Brandon Cooper – Aphid Transcript
Brandon Cooper – CEO of Aphid.io
Note: This transcript was automatically generated by artificial intelligence (AI) and therefore typos may be present.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Hey folks, welcome to show I am Rob McNealy and today I am real excited. I am talking to Brandon Cooper. He is the co founder and CEO of a fit a la based startup working in artificial and blockchain. So, let’s welcome to the show. Brandon. How are you today, sir?
Brandon Cooper – Aphid.io
Doing well, how about yourself?
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
You know, I can’t complain so much. It’s a beautiful day out west got out, got some sun today working out in the yard. So that’s good, considering we’re in the pandemic Apocalypse, I actually feel fine. So that’s good. Saying here. So before we jump into this, tell me a little bit of background. How’d you get started in being an entrepreneur?
Brandon Cooper – Aphid.io
Yeah, I from from a young age, I’ve always been the outcast or just kind of looking around the classrooms and I always felt different even in college. The big auditorium 600 students, I really just didn’t feel like it was for me, it was always something more than just going through the system. Basically, and my background from Detroit, Michigan, inner city, Westside and got into entrepreneurship, actually through network marketing was my first intro where a friend of mine in college he sent me an email on Facebook at the time. He said, Hey, come to my dorm, or as like apartment or something, he showed me, the Cash Flow Quadrant from Robert Kiyosaki. Other people want to roll and they were laughing and they were leaving, like, Ah, this is a joke. And when I saw that video, I mean, I stared at the TV for about 10 minutes. It was just the rubberband effect when it stretched me I just couldn’t go back. Ever since then I started making inventions and things like that.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
So how did you get out to LA?
Brandon Cooper – Aphid.io
Long story short, I lived in it. So I left Detroit after college, and I went to Atlanta. I was in Atlanta for 10 years. And the energy just pulled me out here. It’s a little difficult to do a race. out in Atlanta, in my opinion, I should be to be stricken. I love Atlanta. It was great to me. But the West Coast has really just pulled me. And I tried to stay in Atlanta, but I could just really pull on me. And I love the weather. And I came here to visit a year before I moved, and I said I wanted to move here and the law of attraction pulled me out here.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
So hey, it’s all good. Where’d you go to college? If I’m just curious.
Brandon Cooper – Aphid.io
Michigan State University, Spartan dogs.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
I did my undergrad at Central Michigan, just up the road. Nice. So I set out that’s cool. So would you study at MSU? What did you study there?
Brandon Cooper – Aphid.io
Oh, did I study merchandising, management marketing?
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Very cool. Yep. Yeah, I like state my. My cousin’s all went to state so I don’t I have I have very much a big affinity for MSU. So go Spartans. So you became an entrepreneur moved out to la tele, what is this project you’re working on what is a fit?
Brandon Cooper – Aphid.io
Aphid is an ecosystem where we’re disrupting a nine to five. What we’re doing is allowing people to digitize themselves into a bot. And this bot will do a variation of things to make money. The reason we created a company is we got we saw people working 40 hours a week. And we said, well, there has to be some way that we can make money and not have to trade time for money. And that’s how the company developed. The aphid is actually an insect that can clone itself. So that’s where the name comes from.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
So is this something that you’re bootstrapping or did you get do a raise then or you funded and how did you kind of how’d you get started with the cash flow on this?
Brandon Cooper – Aphid.io
Yeah, bootstrap completely 100% we had a little little cash from a few friends free believe early believers. Really appreciate them. The rest is completely bootstrap.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
So you said you’re coming out pretty soon with your beta, then?
Brandon Cooper – Aphid.io
Yep, within the next few weeks, the mobile application will be out, it’ll be able to create your bot. And we have, that’s the b2c portion, the b2b portion will come out a few months later, for enterprises.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
So walk me through this, you said you’re focused on the non 95 you know, workspace, you know, you want to decouple time and money from one another. In other words, you want people to make money when they sleep. So I’m very interested in these technologies. So give me some give me some examples. So the listeners who might not understand what that means, tell me sure how me is a non developer how I could leverage one of your digitized bots and make money when I sleep.
Brandon Cooper – Aphid.io
Yeah, you would come onto the platform, and you would get a subscription depending on how many bots you want. But if you just get the basic one, you just pay a subscription every month. And then it’s already pre trained. We train the bots to basically go out there and sell through e commerce partners that we have. So every time it sells something on the entire internet of where we place your bot, you make money. And then we’re going to open it up for the developer community to create other ways for your bot to make money too. So you can just install them like the App Store. imagine it being artificial intelligence, foreign exchange trading, or cryptocurrency trading, you can just add that like a widget. And then your bot will make money from these different widgets, these different add ons, we call them drivers.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
So what you’re saying is, so essentially, you’re taking and creating a bot that can do online retail sales. So say I’m an Amazon reseller, is that the kind of thing that I could use this for?
Brandon Cooper – Aphid.io
Yeah, for example, let’s say we get business A, and they have an e commerce platform because they’re one of our platforms that got a chatbot system for us. We’ll take the ROB bot and put it on that website. If it’s so something you get a commission for it.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Interesting. So if I want to leverage your bot, do I actually have to buy inventory to then kind of thing?
Brandon Cooper – Aphid.io
If you if you want to, could you rephrase it,
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
or so there’s something like if I want to make money with the bot, I have to buy inventory from one place and then sell it in another place kind of thing.
Brandon Cooper – Aphid.io
You don’t have to do anything we do all the work for you, all you have to do is just say already programmed into our infrastructure, all you have to do is ask description. And the thing is that you want your bot to do you can just add those skills or job tasks to it.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
So this works for selling retail items. But then you said there’s the ability then to use his trading bot as well.
Brandon Cooper – Aphid.io
For example, one of one of our drivers is going to be CoinGenius, their artificial intelligence cryptocurrency trading platform, you would basically add that driver and then the money that you make from trading there through artificial intelligence will help your money pool. So imagine you’re making money from this driver, that driver this driver, that driver You’re making money from all of these different things while you sleep for your body’s doing the work.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
How’d you come up with the idea
Brandon Cooper – Aphid.io
I was working for I was working for Apple for a while. And the call volume was really insane, was really, really insane. And I said, I wish I could call myself and I could make money off what I’m doing and make money while I’m at the beach. And I left the company got a couple other crazies to believe in me and they joined the team too.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
So are you the lead developer?
Brandon Cooper – Aphid.io
I do no front end. But I am not the lead developer. our CTO Sean Ross is the lead developer.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
So where do you think this is going and how would it segue into the future of the gig economy?
Brandon Cooper – Aphid.io
I see this as being the new way for everyone to make money people are used to doordash or Uber. But you those even those companies, it’s a little dangerous because they’re coming out with The automation rideshares. So if you don’t actually own a Tesla, like a Tesla Robo taxi, then you’re kind of out of business is taking away some of your volume. People are afraid of robots taking our jobs, but in my opinion, if robots don’t take our, our jobs, they will always be at work per se trading time for money. So we’re preventing singularity, in essence.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
So it’s interesting like that that Luddite fear of automation, you know, in the history of this country, at least since the Industrial Revolution, there’s usually been a net increase in jobs when you’ve actually had automation come in. And a lot of people it’s funny because you You seem there’s a lot of tech pros from California that seem to think that in mass all of a sudden all these people are going to be unemployed and it’s gonna be starvation in the streets and pitchforks for them. Right. But I actually the history doesn’t show that and and there’s a couple of reasons why I think is that one, a lot of times people through attrition, a lot of a lot of these things don’t happen overnight these like revolutions, right? And what ends up happening is you have you have a lot of people that through attrition, will, you know, just go away retire anyway, and that that job won’t be refilled. So that’s a big part of it. But on top of that, you’ll find that a lot of innovations come out of it. So for instance, the the buggy whip people and the, you know, the, you know, horse and buggy kind of folks went out of business. But then there was a whole lot of other jobs that came up to build the auto industry, for instance, now you’re from Detroit, I’m from the Detroit area, as well. And if you look at all the stuff that went into that it was actually much bigger markets that were created from that and much more growth and many more jobs that were created, even though the loss of one industry led way to that. It’s like that whole creative destruction thing. So I don’t fear the robots. I want the robots and I want little thing in my brain to make me smarter. So I’m excited about it. So disrupting so how would you say that your, your bot system is disruptive to what’s happening right now.
Brandon Cooper – Aphid.io
The current system is going to work a morning, get home and buy traffic for our cook dinner, do homework with the kids or do homework with the kids cook dinner and repeat five times a week. And that should is 1992 right? 1987 whatever you want to call it. The old way of thinking and most people don’t have enough time to give to not to mention if you have a wife or your husband’s at home or whatever, these people you’re not spending time with your family. And if you were to calculate all of the hours that you’re allocating towards your job over a lifetime, it’s astronomical elite over 100 probably over 172,000 hours. If your life is dedicated to that, and I’m not saying that with a finger, stop, you’ll stop working. But maybe it reduces it to 20 hours a week, right? Maybe you only have two, maybe you can work on your side hustle. Now that becomes full time because you’re making money from a fit and you’re a freelancer, and that covers your income. So that’s ultimately our goal is to get that volume and liquidity high enough to help what we call our controllers, your controller of the bot to help you guys make money.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Yeah, I like what I’m hearing. So you mentioned that you’re doing artificial intelligence and I get that with the bot. But you’ve also mentioned blockchain, how are you incorporating blockchain technology with a Fed
Brandon Cooper – Aphid.io
if if a user wants to sign up decentralized, meaning Google Facebook or email isn’t used to sign up? That means the data is is off the Richter that means Google doesn’t have it. Facebook doesn’t have it. They don’t have your information, you can sign up with their phone number and it’s just tied to you That’s one way we’re using it for data. The analytics, the money that you make all the information is decentralized. So that’s not stored by a fit. You’ll see it in your control panel. But we have that on the decentralized portion. As far as the payments are concerned, we have what’s called same day pay. If the user decides to transact with cryptocurrency, then you as the comptroller would get paid in the same currency that was used. So if they use cryptocurrency, you get paid the same day. And we’re starting off on aetherium or private until we eventually will move to our own main net, sometime in a future. But aetherium you’ll usually get your transaction within it could be three minutes 15 minutes really just depends on how busy it is.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
So what cryptocurrencies Can people pay on your system with well, at least out of the gate?
Brandon Cooper – Aphid.io
Out of the gate will be our own native token named ABION.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
ABION, are you gonna just keep it on your own? Are you gonna open it up to other kryptos in some point
Brandon Cooper – Aphid.io
Possibly, yeah, we’re, we’re working on it. We haven’t made any announcements yet. But you’ll be first and we should talk.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Yeah, I can make a deal for you. Good. Yeah, actually, it could be. So tell me, overall, what’s your go to market plan? You know, I talked to a lot of entrepreneurs. I’ve been an entrepreneur for a long time. And it seems that a lot of tech guys, there’s not always there always seemed like they’re missing a marketing thing. Do you have like a marketing guy? Do you have a good marketing strategy? Do you have a plan to get this implemented into the market?
Brandon Cooper – Aphid.io
For certain we have, we have a strong team. There are just about 20 people in the company. But Alexandra stone, she’s our chief growth officer. And she’s working along with Marcus banks, a part of the sales team to execute our plan. What we plan to do we have there are some talent we can’t announce it just yet, but we have a few talent. There’s an appearance just coming up on big networks to talk about it. So that’s part of it. That’ll have a reach to upwards of a billion reach over time and a webisode series. And then we have a few celebrity people. I know it’s a little gray area when it comes to celebrities and cryptocurrency, things like that. But we do have feel my celebrity friends that will be creating their their bot, we call them a clones, but there’ll be creating their a clones on our platform. And then as far as social media is concerned, we have our campaign is called free society, basically where we just want the society to do as we choose just to be a free thinker every time. And that’s going to be really, really exciting. We have a documentary coming out based upon creatives and thinkers in Los Angeles call free society, and it’ll outline our people are using a fit and that ecosystem.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
Wow. So I can tell just by the expressions on your face, you got you got to drive you got to creativity And I like to see that you’re an entrepreneur and and that that’s that clearly shows that you kind of have this passion. What kind of drives you what makes you tick?
Brandon Cooper – Aphid.io
To be honest with you, I’ve been my whole life was like a nomadic I was always just sleep on my floors and French couches and you know what family is trying to get things together and just being that uncomfortable made me never want to be comfortable. And I have a son, I have a four year old son and see I he looks at me and tells other kids Hey, that’s my when I was on Steve Harvey. He says my dad, that’s my dad. And that was that was pretty awesome for me. So just looking at him as a pretty big part and knowing that the majority of people in my family really don’t leave the city of Detroit or can pay for expenses to go on vacation next night. During this particular pandemic, but generally speaking to just go up and have a vacation and be able to take off for a week, they’re confined to the shackles of their, of this treadmill that they run back to. And I think a person is doing what they want to do is success. It doesn’t there’s nothing wrong with a job if that’s what you wake up and love to do. But if you’re just doing it for the money, you probably died a long time ago. That’s what drives me. You know, I think,
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
I think I can relate to that in a lot of ways. And, and I think what it comes down to is, is, do you feel like you have meaningful work and meaningful purpose. And unfortunately, I think we have an epidemic in this country of people that don’t have either and I think that’s what you touch on and, and I’m not going to give you my sob story, but you know, I have the typical tragic childhood kind of experiences, but those do affect you and they do mold you and they do give you perspective and there’s a joke out there for entrepreneurs, they say with childhood trauma drive you to success kind of thing, right? But But it is true though, in a lot of ways, you know, it’s like, you know, even at my age I, you know, I’ve only built a couple companies but I’ve only sold one I’ve only had one small exit as a serial entrepreneur, I don’t consider myself like, you know, Elon Musk or anything, but I’m still hungry, and I’m still working. And I’m still working toward that I’m and it’s funny, because I get around a lot of people and I’m just as excited about projects that I’m working on now in my late 40s that I was when I was in my my 30s. You know, and because I still have that kind of drive to and and you can tell when other people have it and I definitely see that new Brandon. So Brandon, where can people find out more about you and Aphid?
Brandon Cooper – Aphid.io
Yeah, you can find out on a Ahpid.io that’s A-P-H-I-D.io and we’re on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, You can just search Aphid it will come up should be the first result hopefully. And then me personally is just Brandon Cooper, and my last name the the O’s are zeros for Cooper. I’m on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, etc, as well.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
And folks will have all those linked up on the post at Rob McNealy calm. Brandon, thank you so much for coming on the show today. I really appreciate your time.
Brandon Cooper – Aphid.io
Appreciate you having me. Thanks a lot.
Rob McNealy – RobMcNealy.com
All right, come back next time when you got some updates. You have a great day.
Brandon Cooper – Aphid.io
You know it, you too.
Episode Links
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Transcript
Note: This transcript was automatically generated by artificial intelligence (AI) and therefore typos may be present.
Rob McNealy
Hey guys, Rob McNealy here. And today I am excited. So I am talking to a new our he is the host of the cigars and crypto podcast. And he is a really cool dude. So we’re just gonna gonna hang it up a little bit tonight and see what’s happening on his side of the country. So new are welcome to the show. How are you today?
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Well, my friend, thank you so much for having me. How about you?
Rob McNealy
Oh, good. You know, it’s a it’s been interesting with this little pen demick. Like, adjusting but not adjusting. So like a lot of times, people are like freaking out because they’re, you know, home with their kids and they’re working remote and like, my wife and I work have been working out of the house forever. And we’ve been homeschooling our kids for 10 years. So our kids are like, not really, it’s funny because our kids are like, what’s going on? Because to them, this is like normal life. And they’re just like, I thought everybody to freak it out, but that’s no big deal. Like cuz your life is already kind of like this. But it’s been interesting. My wife for her company she telecommute to Washington, DC. And she’s like one of the only people in our country she a company that works remote and she’s uh, she’s at the director, Deputy Director level for a big company out there. And it’s funny because her entire company went remote, and they’re all freaking out. And it’s funny because I listened to her like conference call sometime and I’m just sitting there laughing and they’re like, her HR department is like saying sending memos around to help support the troops with their new like staying home from you know, the office kind of thing and telling them, make sure you get up in the morning and put on your dress clothes like normal and my wife’s like, dude, I’ve been wearing pajamas to work for seven years with this company. I am not getting dressed now. So it’s kind of funny, right? So Todd Flynn, let’s get into it. Tell us a little bit of our podcast.
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Well, I’m I am the host of cigars and crypto. It started out as guys sitting in a cigar lounge and me sitting in there with a tablet and my MacBook and people asking me, what are you always staring at, you know, talk to us? And I’m like, I’m looking at Bitcoin charts. And, of course, the next question is, what’s Bitcoin? And so I explained to them, you know, what this magical internet money was, and how it’s both money and an asset all rolled into one. And so then they kind of looked at me like, well, how does that work? And so down the rabbit hole we went, I explained it to one person in three, and five. And then I found myself explaining it over and over and over again for about maybe seven months. And I said, You know what, there’s got to be an easier way to do this. So I said, I’m just going to start recording things. I have a background in radio. I did Country radio for a couple years and gospel radio as well. So I’m was familiar with the recording aspect. But I never thought about doing a podcast and so I just said, Well, I’ll just give it a shot. And here I am Episode 96 later, and I’m like, maybe I’m onto something here.
Rob McNealy
So well part of this, what part of the country you out of you don’t have to give an exact location but
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I’m just outside of Philadelphia,
Rob McNealy
Just outside Philly. So what do you what do you find is the response to you go into these What do they call them hops or herps or whatever at the cigar bar kind of thing? Yeah. What’s their response? When you kind of explain what internet money is and stuff like that? They into it, they in denial, they they hate it, what do you what do you seeing?
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
They look at it from a speculative point of view. Um, the thing about cigar smokers is it’s not a cheap hobby. So a lot of the guys Smoke with already investors. But because they don’t understand cryptocurrency, they tend to shy away from it. But they like to ask a lot of questions about it. So they have lots of questions about custody. Volatility not so much where to get it, how to get it. They’re not hung up on the criminal aspects, potential criminal aspects of cryptocurrency they’re really hung up on you know, what is this? How does it work? How do I see it? How do I own it? What can I do with it? That type of thing, you know? So that’s kind of interesting. Some of my friends are libertarians. So they’ve always looked at like, this is money bro. This is like the best money bro. You know, it’s and I agree with him because for me Bitcoin is sound money. And so then there are just some people who just like Oh, Bitcoin crashed it won’t ever be anything. And then they’ll see it go up $100 and then they’ll say, What’s Coinbase? How do I get onto that? If I if I spend $100 will it be 1000 next week? And I’m like, come on, man, you gotta do your homework. You got to do your research.
Rob McNealy
So have you converted a lot of people then?
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
A lot? No, maybe ten?
Rob McNealy
That’s, that’s a good fair amount, though. I mean, I don’t think I’ve covered it. You know, really? It’s been interesting. Seeing where people are with crypto. Yeah. So where do you Where do you see it going over the next year or two? Do you think the the havening is going to make a big difference for Bitcoin? I mean, I think there is the is it priced in is the pandemic priced in. That’s what I’d like to know.
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I think the havening is priced in but I do not I think the pandemic is priced in, I think all of this printing of money is going to inflate the value of Bitcoin. Not monetary value, but source of wealth value. And I say that because people will be looking for something that is stable, that can’t be manipulated. When people start going to the gas stations, and it’s cost seven bucks to get a gallon of gas, or they go to buy a loaf of bread and cost $3 because there’s so much money that’s been printed. People will start to look for things that they can use to conduct commerce and trade and buy things. And when people look at cryptocurrency, they’ll begin to ask the same questions I asked in 2014. What is money? What is the difference between hard and soft money and when Why’s hard money better? What is sound monetary policy? In principle? They won’t ask it that way. But they’ll have very basic questions. Why doesn’t this work?
Rob McNealy
You know, I think that’s an excellent point, right? And then you can say the same thing about the pandemic. And I think part of the problem is, I think a lot of people have a hard time abstracting things that they can’t physically see or physically touch. Right. And so when the money situation when they start seeing, oh, the price of this is going bananas. And I think that loaf of bread is going to go up regardless of what the dollar is doing, because I have concerns about the supply chain anyway. But but I think it’s the same thing with the the pandemic. People on the east coast. You know, three weeks ago, four weeks ago, I have a lot of friends in New York City. And when I was telling them to get the hell out in New York City four weeks ago, they’re like, it’s no big deal. There’s been a few and no Now there’s like 1000 bodies today stacking up in New York City right now with COVID. They’re like, yeah, this is serious. I’m like, okay, but I was telling you that a month ago, and I think, you know, and I don’t want to be that guy, because this is not the thing I want to be right about. But I think you’re right. I think when it starts hitting people in the checkout line, I think that’s when they’re gonna start looking for alternatives to the dollar.
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Yeah. Because for right now, everything is abstract to them. It doesn’t impact me, it’s not affecting me. They look around and they see gas at $1 89. And they’re like, Oh, this is the best it’s been in decades. You know, but they’re not understanding what’s coming on the other side of that, because the amount of money that we’ve pumped into the economy because of the backroom deals by politicians and bureaucrats, that we’re not privy to the information that we’re not privy to, how it will directly impact us, even though we don’t have directly knowledge of what’s happening. I prefer to stay prepared as best I can. I try to make sure that my family is prepared as well. Not just in terms of defense, but understanding knowledge and information as well.
Rob McNealy
You know, I think preparedness is one of those things that is going to get more important going forward on all fronts both, I think, I mean, I don’t know if you’ve ever really listened to the show very much but I read a lot at least on Twitter about financial literacy being an important thing. And and part of that is crypto and and i believe investing in other asset classes and diversification. I’m old so I don’t have all my eggs in one basket. But, you know, and I just think that sound investing, right? You don’t want to put everything in one place but but what I tell people is, you know, you got to prepare yourself in other places, too. It’s like it’s great if you got some investment in Bitcoin, but if you’re carrying, you know, 100 grand in credit card debt, student loan debt, you know, why don’t you you need to focus on that and get that get your house in order. Because to me long term Yeah, you can gamble on crypto and really a lot of crypto is gambling right now. And I’m not bad mouthing any crypto, I run a, you know, or I’m involved in a crypto project, I found a co founder to crypto project. So, you know, I, you know, I still see, even our project is high risk investing if you’re viewing it as a speculative asset because it’s so early on right now, and it’s just the nature of the beast. But that doesn’t mean that you know, I would like to see. Well, I’d like to see people have an awakening from the pandemic.
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I want..I want that to happen. But I don’t think people can keep their eyes off the television. keep their eyes out. Their ears off the radio and their ears out of the echo chambers that surround them every day. When you have and it doesn’t matter, your political persuasion, when you exist in an echo chamber, you suffer from cognitive dissonance. You look for thoughts and ideas that reinforce your own. And the act of doing that prevents or prohibit you from receiving new information or looking at things differently, and making your own decisions and your own determinations on what your reality is and what’s going on around you. And that’s why we have these people kind of falling into these camps. You know, and not really looking out for their neighbor the way they should be, you know, because of like tribalism. You know, I don’t really Subscribe to that, um, you know, I like people who are different than me. Because it’s an opportunity for me to learn and experience new things. I am different from everyone that I live around. But I found out in the last three weeks that I’m really not, because now Well, I mean, of course, we maintain our social distance, but I see my neighbors every day now. And I talk to them every day now. And my neighbors are really cool. Like really cool. And I didn’t know that because we’re so caught up in the rat race to nine to five, every day that you don’t really stop and have an opportunity to talk to people. So the awakening the potential and possibility for an awakening is there. But people have to get away from the noise and just get to know the person to the left in the writing.
Rob McNealy
I think there was an event point was brought up in a book I read a long time ago. And it says it was it was there’s an old book, and it was talking about the internet age and, and it says, people can talk to people around the world now, but they don’t talk to their neighbor kind of thing. Right? And, and I think with social media and online communities, we now have that option to just pick and choose that echo chamber of everybody we like results with, you know, without having to necessarily, you know, it’s easy to filter out the crap you don’t want to see the block and mute months for and I’m just as guilty of using those buttons as anybody else’s. But I think you’re right, I think, you know, I think that some good things are going to come out of this pandemic and the economic fallout from now, I’ll be the first to say and I’d like to get your opinion on this. I don’t believe COVID is causing the problem with the economy I think it’s a trigger exposing an existing problem with our financial systems and I believe a problem with American culture and I want to get your I’ll go into explain what I mean by that, but I want to hear your take on it. I know that’s a loaded questions. Okay. We’re just gonna go we’re just gonna skim the surface right off
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
the surface, right? Okay. Um, As Americans, we are greedy. We consume more than we need. We spend more than we should. We take on debt, instead of saving. We have very high timeframes for life instead of thinking about the future that affects businesses that affects commerce, trade, our spending habits. We are to blame for what happened to the economy. I don’t blame politicians because we put them in office. We listened to what they had to say. And we put them in office anyway. And we keep putting the same people in office over and over and over again. And they’re not doing things in our best interest. So I don’t blame them. COVID did not cause what’s happening to the economy. The economy was on its way down. Anyway. The economy has been down since 2007. Don’t right, go ahead.
Rob McNealy
I was gonna say you’re my echo chamber now. But I agree with you and you’re hitting on all the points that I hit on and people hate me when I talk about about this, and I say it’s like this. Really, if the entire country is destitute with two weeks of not getting a paycheck, we’re so much more fucked than whatever this virus is going to do to us.
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Exactly.
Rob McNealy
I you know, the I Am. I think humans can adapt to all sorts of good things and and can adapt to shit. And I am utterly dismayed that our country is so how do I say fragile? And look we all live paycheck to paycheck all right? Well, here’s the problem. Maybe you shouldn’t live paycheck to paycheck. Why are you living paycheck to paycheck, but there’s that many people don’t get me wrong. Now one of the things I did as an entrepreneur Believe it or not, I owned a get a liquor store in Denver in the worst neighborhood in Denver. We opened carried pistols in the store. It was everything was behind the counter bars on the window. I’m originally from Detroit. trade area too. So, but I grew up in Michigan, but when I lived in Denver and we had our store, it was interesting to me because the people coming into the store were low income people. And these people had $300 shoes. Every one of them had big screen TVs, because they talked about it. Every one of them had the latest and greatest, most expensive iPhone. Now at the time, I was running a cricket phone. You know, flip phone kind of, Oh, looks an awful lot like this one. You know, but, but to me, it was like shocking, because I mean, I we weren’t living paycheck to paycheck at that time. Like we had some money in the bank and some savings and we’re trying hard to, you know, get rid of the little debt we had at the time and things like that was like time ago, but it’s interesting to me that the one of the things about our poor people in this country Is that our poor people are all obese, and they have every possible consumer electronic gadget and consumer luxury good, you can imagine. And having traveled a little bit, it’s amazing to see that. And to me, I believe it’s a cultural flaw in the United States, and I think it’s part of our downfall.
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I think it’s a byproduct of advertisement in communication. folks don’t do better if they don’t know how to do better. If you are surrounded by images of $300, tennis shoes and iPhones and big TVs in flashy cars, those are the things that you strive to obtain. If you’re never taught about sound money, or what a checkbook is, or How to invest or the proper way to budget, you won’t do it. And some cases, some people learn differently. life experience changes them in a way that they have to learn. But if everything around you is moving at the same pace, there’s no need for you to slow down or speed up. And so people emulate what they see. And I think about, you know, one of the books that really changed my life man was the Bitcoin standard. And it really changed the way I look at money, and how I view what money is and what money should be. No one taught me that I asked questions, who became curious because I didn’t expect The answers I got. So I wanted to validate what I was hearing and what I was reading. So I read something else and I read something else and I read something else. Then I looked at my decisions and was like, yo, like, I had to change some things. If I want something 20 years from now, I can’t keep doing this today. I’ve got to learn how to put money away. I’ve got to learn how to start looking for assets, appreciating assets, not depreciating assets. I don’t want to go out and buy even though I can afford I don’t want to go out and buy 2020. Lexus now, I will go out and buy a 1964 Ford F 100 pickup truck and never drive it. You see what I mean? And then wait 10 years and sell it for five or 10,000 more than what I paid for.
Rob McNealy
Those fleet sides are going up in value. Aren’t they?
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I am trying to tell you baby?
Rob McNealy
I watch Barrett Jackson.
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Yeah, my wife looks at me like I’m crazy. She’s like, he’s such an old man. I’m like, No, I’m trying to tell you there’s something to this. Not only is it beautiful, but it will appreciate your value over time.
Rob McNealy
I think one of the things you’re hitting on is really good. And I think a really good primer of this, this thinking as well as Rich Dad, Poor Dad. You know, it’s a very clear, it’s a very cliche book. But it really lines out the basics is the fact is, were you even even outside of sound money though, you know? Robert Kiyosaki is now on the Bitcoin bandwagon and crypto bandwagon as well now, but the whole point is, is getting your financial ducks in a row and i and i think you know, Dave Ramsey, that’s a great place to start Financial Peace University. Right? And and so I grew up I grew up in a fairly poor family. And I came from people that were the poor dads in that book, my family that was that that was my family. And so I had learned really bad money management behaviors from my family. You know, and and when I, when I’m bad bashing financial literacy in this country, it’s not even demographic specific. It crosses every income, every ethnic, you know, demographic, every education level in this country. Almost everybody falls down into the same problems of living paycheck to paycheck, spending more than they make not saving money, getting into a lot of debt that is normal in the United States today. And, and the reason I’m talking about is not because I want to rub it in people’s faces. When they’re struggling. That’s not what I’m trying to do. What I’m hoping is that once we get through this name, mer that’s unfolding in like, slow motion because it is in slow motion for a lot of people is I hope that they come out of this going Holy crap, I need to do something different because I only had I could only last two weeks. Right? And and basic financial literacy is three to six months or at least a year’s worth of emergency fund. Now think of it this way you are think of it what happens if 75% of the country had a six month emergency fund right now. D things would be very different right now.
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Very different.
Rob McNealy
But this pandemic..
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
..is very different. Because then if we had six months of savings, if if 75% of us had six months of savings, we will be able to see the difference between the Sham economy and the real economy. Because the stock market is not the economy. And I try to tell people that all the time and they don’t get it. But businesses may be hurting But the economy will be fine. Because people will have saved and prepared and will be able to take care of their needs. Not just saving money, but saving food, saving ammo, saving the things that are important when these folks are going out buying toilet paper, Bro, I was buying bullets. Because I knew.
Rob McNealy
Yeah, you know, actually, I think both are a good investment right now. And I finally figured out why the toilet paper actually makes a lot more sense and why that’s not being stocked but we can go into that offline. But no, I actually we’ve been I’ve been trying to dig into the supply chain stuff. It’s pretty fascinating. I learned a lot more about toilet paper than I ever thought I would want to know about toilet paper in the last three weeks. But But I think what’s happened what I’m seeing out there is is that Americans not only are monetarily not prepared, they’re not prepared from a personal On the fence standpoint, they’re not prepared for retirement either is that we’re inherently a really weak nation now. We’re fragile and psychologically. I’m not sure that the I’m not sure in the next two years, what the country is going to look like, on the other side of those two years. What do you think? Do you think there’s gonna be big changes culturally in this country from this?
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I think culturally, and economically, there’ll be massive changes from this. We fall victim to propaganda. And other countries for the last what 10 years specifically, the BRICS nations have been preparing for a calamity BRICS being Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa. They have been buying, stockpiling, stockpiling gold, platinum palladium rhodium. They are preparing to trade with each other for oil and other goods and services in gold, bypassing the Petro dollar. They’ve been preparing. We’ve been blustering. And as powerful as our military is, and I’m in no way shitting on our military, I’m a seven year army vet. So I am not shitting on the military. But as powerful as our military is a military cannot function if it is not financed. And we have depressed the dollar so much. I am actually scared of external threats, less internal threats. You know what I mean?
Rob McNealy
You Yep. You know, it’s interesting, you know, you know, it’s a good exercise. You don’t know me that well, but I tend to go down some really deep rabbit holes when I want to know information. Again, and and, and I have a pretty I have a really big network and I know a lot of interesting and resourceful people and a lot of interesting positions all over the place. So if I really want to have a question, I have enough people in my Rolodex that are worth, you know, eight, nine digits and have lots of connections. So if I have a weird question, I can pick up the phone and they’ll take my calls. And one of those things that I I’ve gone down that rabbit hole about the military, and they started looking at, you know, okay, how was the United States poised for a war? So it’s interesting right now. And I’m going down this rabbit hole right now, but what happens if we can’t make ammunition and there’s a war or even just more war than we have right now? Do you so I don’t know if you’ve been to any kind of store. Now. We all know that. Been a lot of FOMO buying guns and ammo. But I have a lot of connections into the arms industries and from I’m going to confirm some of these things. But I’ve been talking to quite a few people and I have a bunch of wholesale accounts as well. There’s no ammunition in the distributor network or the retail network at this point. There’s nothing you can order from RSR you can order from CRO shooting supply. And these are the biggest distributors that distribute to all the retailers nationwide in the gun world. They don’t have any ammo either. They don’t have any way to backward the ammo. And so I started going down rabbit holes, and I’m like, what’s the problem? So here’s an interesting thing that no one’s talking about. And I’ve been talking about this since January. So China’s been offline since January. They make everything and people don’t even know the extent that we’re dependent on China. Like we’re not like, Oh, we could just ignore them more like we’re they’re like holding up, we’re walking down the street kind of dependent on them. So, so the interesting thing, I started looking at the supply chain because I’m like, Okay, I’m gonna get, I’m gonna move up here because I’m getting all excited now. But so I started looking at the supply chain stuff. Do you know there’s this thing called buffer inventory? So I said, Okay, if ships stop moving cargo from China, to the United States, how long before we run out of stuff? And no one’s talking about that question. No one not in the mainstream media. I have her I have a hard time even finding information about people who would ask that question. So in my day job, I got a lot of people that bring manufacturer stuff in China, and I just started picking up the phone. And they said, if we don’t get shipments By May, we’re out of our our inventory by June, and they don’t have any firm dates from China. And then I started saying, Okay, well, how long what’s the buffer inventory in the United States? Well, for most things, and I’m talking about everything, it’s one to four months of buffer inventory in the United States for almost anything. China’s not back online yet. So another way to so I go down this other rabbit hole, right? And I’m just like I’m really interested in like, Okay, well, how do we confirm that there’s a problem with the amount of stuff moving? Well, there’s this thing called the dry Baltic index, which is the marketplace where people buy shipping containers to move raw goods, not necessarily finished goods. It’s fell off a cliff. No one’s buying shipping from China to the US. And so, I’ve started talking to people and you know, I started looking at what are the things that we need in the United States to live not talking TVs at Walmart, we got plenty of those right. And everybody’s gonna buy in with their stimulus. Trump bucks. But they make 90% of our drugs and drug precursors in China. Now. Yes, he Here’s a couple other things they make. They also make all the ingredients and food processing chemicals for our food supply. Not not, and then on top of that, most of our seafood comes from China. So just on that alone, it’s like, wow. And no one’s talking about this. And then the toilet paper thing. So I always think ahead, right? I always stocked up on stuff and I said, you know, all the things that’s not back in inventory right now at any grocery store out here is toilet paper and paper goods. Still gone. totally gone. And so I went down this rabbit hole, new era of like, how like how much toilet paper? Do you know how much toilet paper we buy in the United States every year? You’re not big the market is
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Probably massive.
Rob McNealy
Massive – $6 billion a year. So what we spend, but here’s the word, but do you know what most of it’s actually made in the United States. Actually, we Don’t actually import much toilet paper we employed about $500 million a year in toilet paper. Most of it doesn’t even come from China comes from Indonesia. So it’s really interesting to me I’m like okay, so why are these shelves empty? This just can’t all be FOMO buying. Well we found two problems though. And the thing that I just uncovered the other day is all like what what’s the problem? Well guess what? Even though we make the toilet paper here, the recycled paper that makes the toilet paper is like the cheapest pulp comes from China. I think they’re out because China’s not back in line yet. And in fact, that dug into that rabbit hole. Most of the so we said whole cargo ships have you know all that recycled cardboard and plastic and or paper that you know gets bundled up goes to China. They turn it into pulp and ship it back and then we make it into toilet paper. The other problem with the supply chain we got a couple points. With the supply chain in the country, but that’s one of those external threats. Here’s another interesting thing. You know, I started looking at all these other countries with COVID now we’re getting into a whole prepper weird, crazy conversation. But I started talking to people and you know, what happens when India and you know, and some of these other countries start having a problem with COVID? How would that affect the supply chain and how could that affect us? Well, it’s interesting, you know, India’s a big country and they’re not they’re having they’re gonna have a big problem, I think with this pandemic, and they’re just starting, they’re just getting started. You know, they’re like the number two rice exporter in the planet. So what happens if because of absenteeism from illness and lockdowns and fear? They don’t produce let’s just say they produce less rice, not no rice but less rice. They feed a lot of countries and one of those other countries going to do here’s another thing so We’ve had four meatpacking plants in the United States go down because of COVID in the last week and a half, for in the last week and a half. And we’re talking one plant alone does 5% of the pork for the entire United States just went down in the last week. So, two, so a meat and a beef plant in Iowa, one of the biggest beef slaughterhouses in northern Colorado in Greeley. And then a port processing plant up in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, all went down the last 10 days because COVID they don’t know when they’re coming back online. So you have this absenteeism. So there’s food and pigs and cows in the United States. But if you can’t get them processed, what’s that gonna do to people in Philly at the grocery store? Right. Right. What does that do the so we’re talking about that loaf of bread getting more expensive just because of inflation for money. What what happens when that price goes up two or three times? Because there’s no one to process as much, or what happens if the truck drivers are too afraid to drive truck across country to a pandemic zone, which you’re already seeing in New York City now. And it’s gonna get worse through the summer I predict from all the major cities, especially I think every major city east of the Mississippi is gonna have a problem with COVID bad. And so that’s my prediction. You can call me out on it by August we’ll have a conversation as car over it. But these are the things that I am getting concerned about. Now, here’s the thing, where did we get a lot of our produce from in the wintertime?
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Mexico.
Rob McNealy
China, Mexico. So what happens if they have absenteeism from fear and illness? Now right now you can’t cross the border to Mexico. Well, all those workers that work our field come from Mexico. Regardless of what the conservatives want to believe about rural America and farmers, they’re all run by Mexicans. That’s just a fact. So the workers can’t get here. But what happens if Mexico’s farms have the same problem we do? What if their processing plants go down because of fear and illness? COVID in the wintertime, you know, this fall, what does that do to the price of food? Now, you know, I’ve spent a lot of time in inner cities now. And you know, I know I come from a poor family. So what happens to people that are dependent on EBT? And now that price of hamburger went from $4 a pound to $15 a pound or $20 a pound? How are those people going to react when their food stamps don’t go very far now. And those are the things that keep me concerned. But, you know, then you get into the International, you know, incidents with like, Okay, well, if countries don’t have enough food now to feed their people, what are they going to do? And put put your military thinking hat on. What does that look like in a year from now? And, and so I think we have multiple problems happening. And I think COVID is the trigger to basically say, look, this Emperor has completely naked now. And you guys got a lot of problems. Right? Right ranting but those are the things they have me concerned right now.
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I’d have to agree with all of those assessments but I if I could convince my wife man, we will be out of here. My my family immigrated here from the Bahamas in the 20s. And I still have family there and if I could convince my wife man, we will be out. Like to
Rob McNealy
To the Bahamas?
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Damn right, right now.
Rob McNealy
I’m not sure I’d want to go to an island right now to be honest. Because they’re actually all the all the people Caribbean islands right now are having problems with COVID. Yeah, so and so the question is on an island, you’re completely dependent on outside logistics for your support. If those logistics chains start getting broken, you’re really kind of on an island.
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Just eat fish every day.
Rob McNealy
You if you can. I love the Caribbean man, I, you know, I’ve been to a lot of Caribbean islands and, man, I would be all about at least having a second house there. I’m not sure I’d want to write out this there. Right now. You know, we moved to Salt Lake City now six years ago now, and I think was a smart move because as far as urban or suburban areas were one of the most prepared states on the planet, like part of the the LDS culture, the Mormon culture, and is that, you know, they’re supposed to have a year supply of food. A lot of people don’t know that but like the whole morning A church is one giant prepper organization. And in fact, the Mormon Church has its own grain silos all over the place. And they have their own food processing, canneries and everything. I mean, they’re really dialed in. And so people in Utah are pretty, pretty resilient and self reliant. And that was one of the things that attracted me to the Utah in general. Was that self reliance? so far with COVID? We’re one of the only states that’s not locked down. We’re we’re in a semi we’re in a voluntary soft lockdown. Like the governor comes on the you know, every day at you know, lunchtime and says, Please, please, please, please, please don’t make me become a tyrant. Before she’s like, just do the right thing. Right. But but we haven’t had many cases here. So we’ve had 20 deaths in the whole state, but it’s picking up space. It’s picking up pace now. So you know, I think we’re gonna be one of the last to go if it goes bad, just because one more small population and we’re facing fairly isolated compared to, you know, the, you know, east of the Mississippi. It’s just so much more crowded in the east coast in the Midwest that it’s just a lot harder I think with this, I mean, so what does your wife Think about all this? You mean you sound like you’re a preparedness guy too, right?
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
But she’s she’s now four that she thinks I’m overreacting.
Rob McNealy
What does she think you’re overreacting?
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Because she’s never seen me act like this before.
Rob McNealy
Really? How are you acting?
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Like, I need to be prepared.
Rob McNealy
Gotcha. But were you prepared before or is this something more recent or is this kind of like, ongoing thing without divulging any opsec Right, right, right. You know, I don’t need to know what you have or don’t have but, you know, I just like to understand where people are coming from because.
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I’ve, I’ve always believed in having Little more than what’s absolutely necessary. I think we need to go all in. We need to be really putting we really need to be the squirrel and story a cause for real bad weather.
Rob McNealy
I agree with you now I have no OPSEC because I run a prepper crypto crypto conference every year called Off Chain: http://OffChain.events. So it’s kind of obvious that I do put things away. And that’s kind of part of, it’s just part of who we are. We don’t even think about it. It’s just like, but it’s funny because we just opened up pinto beans from 2011 the other day. And they were fine, by the way, right? Is it really good? But you’re like, I don’t you know, it’s one of those things like I hope I never have to open this five gallon bucket of pinto beans. But I’m glad I had the pinto beans. Kind of great. But I think yeah, I think what What I’ve been telling people right now it’s like cuz there’s a lot of people that are waking up. You know, I’m a gun guy. And sounds like you’re a gun guy as well. Yeah. Have you had a lot of people ask you about that? Guns recently?
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
What do you mean. asked me what?
Rob McNealy
Like people that are non gun people getting interested in wanting information about guns.
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
No. Everyone who knows me knows that I’m a gun guy. But they don’t ask me about it.
Rob McNealy
Now, because it’s interesting because I’ve had four people in the last two weeks three were first time gun buyers wanting to know what to buy, where to buy that kind of thing, and that one person was looking for food. And I’m like, Of course I’m and I’m like, Oh, of course. I’m the guy you call. But it’s just it’s been interesting seeing like people’s getting concerned now and I tell people right now if you haven’t prepped, you got one last opportunity right now. Do to get as much As you can get and but but I tell people, first thing you need to do is mentally prepare yourself for change. Probably drastic change, yes. Probably tough times, yes. A mentally prepare yourself that life is not going to be the same and get okay with that.
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Right. And it’s going to happen quickly.
Rob McNealy
It’s good. It’s not happening quickly enough.
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Because I don’t I don’t think we I don’t think we’re where we need to be.
Rob McNealy
Well, I think I was telling someone the other day that I think there’s people don’t have a sense of urgency in outside of the East Coast right now at all about this. All they want to do is they’re they’re healthy, they don’t see a problem. There’s not body stacking up. And so I think what’s happening is they can’t abstract what’s happening. I think it’s a combination of normalcy bias. Time preference. I think it’s like, there’s a glacier coming of really big freakin glacier. And it’s gonna run over your town. Right? But everybody’s like, well, I don’t see the glacier move, but it’s gonna run over the town. Well, I don’t see it moving. So I’m not going to do anything. And I think a lot of people are struggling with them because of it. And then they see the more immediate I’m not working, I don’t have money coming in and do those are all valid concerns, especially if you don’t have any savings. Right? So I don’t have a good answer to that. But this is not just a COVID Glacier. This is a supply chain glacier that’s affecting the entire planet in a slow moving wave like a glacier. Right? And it’s going to take a year before you know it’s gonna take months I would bet it’s gonna be a very scary summer is what I predict. Because I think you’re going to see a lot of cities all flaring up at the same time. I think you’re going to have the the buffer inventories from China burn through, I think you’re gonna have a lot of absenteeism. And you know, shortages because of this plants going down and this plant is going down and, and I think all that stuff is going to be rolling. So you’re, it’s like you’re gonna, you know, New York will be starting to be through its peak and then Chicago is going to be hitting its peak. Right, you know, or just starting in Detroit and St. Louis. And it’s just going to go on and on and on. And it’s going to take all right, well, I’ll be you know, New York hasn’t peaked yet. So understand this, right. Like, it’s been six weeks we had no, I mean, it’s like, stayed in New York, like, what 20 some thousand now or something. I mean, six weeks ago, they had zero need, it’s like, so it’s like gradually but you know, and that’s just one major city with it. But what happens when you have four cropping up in six more weeks. What does that look like? And right now most of the resources to handle COVID have been redirected to New York from other places. So I don’t I think we’re going to be I think the, the response to COVID is going to be scary. And I think there’s going to be a, I mean, there’s going to be a lot of people that are gonna, you know, not make it through this. Right. But I think what’s going to affect all of us is the supply chain failures domestically and internationally. And I think that and how people react to them. The question is, how do people react and you know, you know, I so are you from Philly your whole life? You said your family came from Bahamas, where are you? Where were you raised?
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I was, I was born in New York, but I was raised in DC.
Rob McNealy
Okay. So, you know, and I’ve lived all over but I’ve been out west about 20 years, but I grew up in the Midwest. So I spent 20 years in the Detroit area for 28 years, actually, in the Detroit area. I know this that people Americans have never had to deal with empty shelves. Think about that.
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Never.
Rob McNealy
Never. Now I’ve traveled a little bit, you probably traveled a little bit, you go to other places. Well, I don’t have any there’s nothing on the shelf for a month, but next month will be something on that shelf. And people are okay with that because that’s the system. Right? That’s what they’re used to. And the more third world or developing nations that’s that’s common, right? Well, we’ll get something pretty soon. You know, they don’t know. Americans have never had to deal with that. I’m 48 I’ll be 48 this summer. I’ve never seen that my lifetime.
Unknown Speaker
Now, add to that, that we are the nation with the most guns per person on the planet.
Rob McNealy
Yep.
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
It’s good to be MadMax in the Thunderdome.
Rob McNealy
You know it It’s I don’t know where this is gonna go. You know, I’m just saying is if you’re like imagine if you’re like around a bit I think like a big pot. You’re in the kitchen right? You got a big giant pot is thrown in, you’re just gonna make the most worst meal ever. And you’re gonna just throw in some like, throw it’s a Molotov cocktail, a little gasoline, a little acid, gunpowder, TNT, nuclear weapons, throw into pathogens, turn it all up and, and let it launch in the middle of the summertime in the Midwest, like Detroit and Philly in Chicago, and then tell people, they got to be locked in their house because there’s a pandemic and they don’t have air conditioning. Right. Just like, you know, but I think but I even think about the air conditioning piece, right? I mean, I’ve been around a lot of inner cities growing up and where I’ve worked and stuff and I’m not this is not a stereotype. It’s a fact a lot of people don’t have central air. in inner cities in the Midwest, Detroit area, every summer when there’s a heatwave in Detroit, there’s people dying because they don’t have air conditioning. And, and think about it so and part of the response to that is people hang out outside, they get barbecue, they hang out the friends that hang out late at night instead of during the day, because they don’t want to be in their house. So what happens if you stir all that in top of that? Oh, man, I am not. I am not looking forward to this summer at all with this. And and i think that i think the COVID is just exposing all sorts of problems that already were there. And I think a lot of people are gonna get mad. A lot of people are going to get frustrated. There’s not things on the shelves. I think people are going to be pissed that things cost a lot more. I think people are going to be pissed because they’re told to stay in the house. They don’t want to stay in the house. Let’s just be honest, people don’t like being told what to do. Right? Anyways, I’m ranting. I’m sorry man. I I don’t know, man. I think it’s gonna be I think it’s gonna be wack. That’s what I think it’s gonna be a wack time.
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
It’s gonna be interesting.
Rob McNealy
And so what do you think people should be doing? So, alright, so people here like, you know they’re not on the East Coast not in the Midwest. They’re just like doo dee doo dee doo. What would be your saying what would be your advice right now to those people?
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Move out, move out of debt, move out of credit. Start putting away a little cash. start, stop putting away things that you can trade and start thinking about how you defend yourself and your family. Start thinking about how you feed yourself and your family. Make those things a priority because when the time comes and you realize that you need to do it, it’s already too late. Because other people are realizing at the exact same time that they need to do it. And then it becomes survival of the fittest. And the question is, how fit are you?
Rob McNealy
I couldn’t disagree with any of that? And, man, I’m usually a lot more uplifting than this.
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Me too man.
Rob McNealy
No, but but seriously, though, I mean, I think that’s a good point is cover your frickin bases right now you’re sitting home. Don’t look at Pornhub all day, don’t play video games all day. start figuring out what you need to do to get past six months from now. Right? What’s that gonna look like? Right? You know, I don’t have a crystal ball. And I sure as hell hope that all the stuff we talked about doesn’t happen. I really hope it doesn’t happen. And you know what? I’ve been wrong before. You know I would I thought that shit was gonna meltdown in 2013. I’ll tell you that. That was I thought 20 13 if I had to put like, you know, the crystal ball on it, I was you know, my tea leaves are telling me 2013 it’s all it’s all over with. That’s gonna go mad max. That’s what I thought didn’t happen. They pumped up the housing market again. And now the housing markets way crazier now than it wasn’t you know 2007 2008 and I think that’s another I think that’s another shoe that’s gonna drop. And what do you what do you think about that? What do you think is gonna happen and how..
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
People out of work, they won’t be able to pay their mortgages.
Rob McNealy
Yeah. And the banks already tightening their credit lines again, and they’re already in get. My wife is super smart. I’m the dumb one of the family. My wife’s really smart. And we were walking around the neighborhood and there was a house that same size as mine, but they remodeled it. And they sold it for two and a half times my house. There’s a Worth right now. And it’s just a brick ranch house. Okay. I mean, this is not a fancy neighborhood or anything like that. But the numbers on the house, I mean, I look it up I like I like to look at real estate like to see what’s happening and and I was like, there’s no way in hell, I mean, we could afford that. But there’s no way I could pay that. I think we overpaid for my house when we bought it, and how my house has doubled in the last five years. And I said, there’s no way I would buy my house for what it’s valued at right now. I would not spend it. It’s not worth it. To me. It’s just, you know, it’s ridiculous. My wife made a good point, though. She’s like, because, you know, we were growing up with the house during the last housing crash, and she’s like, this housing crash is gonna be a lot faster to bottom and I go, what do you mean by that? Just to think about it, you know, in 2007, the price of a house was about a third what it is now, for the same house, even our old house. It’s funny, it’s like you look back on what our old House was in Colorado. And we’re like, holy crap. It’s ridiculous what that house costs, it’s that it’s ridiculous. So she’s like, think about this house. So she’s like, if a house has an $800,000 a month mortgage, it’s going to take two people working full time probably pay for that mortgage, and it’s probably like a 5000 $6,000 a month mortgage. She’s like, what if one of those people lose their job? Just one. Now this is before COVID head. So this was like last, you know, this is several months ago. And she’s she had a great point. She says, they can’t go and just liquidate their 401k out or go do Uber part time to come up with that nut every month. While they’re hoping they get another big boy job. She should so she says that housing markets probably going to hit bottom a lot faster because people are going to run out of money much faster because the mortgages are a lot bigger now. And I thought that was a really interesting point. That hadn’t heard anybody else make? Yeah. So, you know, I’m worried my brother I am, I’m so worried about where people are. And, and I’ve been in agony because I see so many people that are destitute so quickly. You know, I knew it was bad. I mean, it wasn’t ignorant to the savings rates and stuff, but the fact that I see people like so depressed and miserable, and they’re, I mean, I would bet that at the end of the year, you’re gonna see that the suicide rates probably gonna go crazy this year. And that makes me sad. Because, you know, you know, the regardless, we can get through all this shit. You know, I lived in a van behind a grocery store one summer as an adult, you know, and, and I would and I, and that’s no bullshit, okay? I mean, I’ve really came from a hard life growing up, and, you know, it’s like, I’m like, and you know what, none of that shit scares me. I’ve lost it all. And I’ve had an thing and I grew up with nothing so you know money and all that kind of stuff I you know, being broke like, whatever, you know figure the shit out, right that’s my attitude on it not that I want to be poor because being poor sucks but what I’m saying is but for people who have never experienced that right now because they grew up in this debt fueled really upper middle class you know lifestyle I think there’s gonna be a reckoning and I think those people are gonna have a very hard time adjusting to what the future holds.
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I think those people will be prey.
Rob McNealy
Yeah. Especially the ones that don’t like guns. And what do you think about precious metals? Are you a pro so book, silver bug, why silver over boom.
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
It’s in every phone. So most of our electronics, the price has been depressed even more than gold. So once the banks get their film off the paper Silver supply and the real value of silver is able to be discovered by the market. Got a pretty good feeling about it.
Rob McNealy
What is that? 50 is it 50 times now?
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I thought it was 75?
Rob McNealy
I haven’t looked in a couple weeks. So you really are you know like you are definitely my echo chamber right now. I like I like silver more than gold for the seasons. That’s an interesting thing. The the precious metals markets have been really bizarre, haven’t they? Yes. Tell me about what are you seeing out there?
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Ah, I dollar cost average precious metals the same way I do crypto and over the last month, actually six to eight weeks. The premium over spot for silver is Bananas. I recently purchased from admix $7 30 cent premium over spot. Now considering considering silver is like 14 $15 an ounce, so that’s 30 to 50% 50. Premium on an ounce.
Rob McNealy
So what does that mean?
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Something that we don’t know.
Rob McNealy
So explain that. So for people that are not gold or silver or precious metal bugs, what does that mean? It’s good to go into a little bit.
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Sure. Spot price is how much the market recognizes an ounce of silver for let’s say it’s $15 Okay. The premium is charged by the retailer to the consumer, because of various reasons, one of which is the difficulty in getting in Or the supply levels, how easy and how much there is to be sold at any given time, how much the mid releases at any given time, or how much silver was mined at any given time. When the supply starts to dry up, the premium on silver goes up, because they identify that more people want it, there’s less of it. So it becomes a law of supply and demand. So the less silver there is in the market to be sold and or the less silver has been mined in a month or six months or a year, the higher the price of silver will be and the higher the premium will probably be as well. And so when I went out to buy to do my regular DCA You know, I’m like damn, like $7 36 like This is like 50% like, really? Like believe what I was seeing when I saw it. And I mean, at max Providence on money metals, JM bullion, it didn’t matter where you win the premium was in that range of 50% premium.
Rob McNealy
Yeah, well, what what I think is interesting is that just based on the markets tanking, just based on global supply chain threats, the spot price of gold and silver should be off the charts. They should be off the chain they should be going nuts agree they’re not good. Not this the and usually in Newtown. I mean, typically, you might spend a buck you know even less depending for for the premium. If there is one, it’s not anywhere near you know, seven bucks, right, you make 1050 cents more for Well, I want this round and it’s got 20 Well design on it or whatever, you know. But what’s happened and what it looks like to me that for a long time in precious metals, a lot of the precious metal bugs out there have been saying that precious metal markets have been artificially depressed. And it’s, it’s easy to write that off as conspiracy, right? You see that a lot of times too with crypto, the crypto whales are suppressing the bitcoin price, whatever, you know, you hear that there too. But it’s interesting. Is that what there’s what it looks like it’s happening because right now, I don’t know how much physical delivery what lead times are you getting out there for the physical delivery, two weeks, we’re getting four to six new top. And so it’s interesting. And what so what they’re saying is, is that the the conspiracy theory that I’ve heard is that that there’s these paper gold and paper silver, and that they’ve oversold it, meaning that they’ll say this one, you know, this security is is worth so many ounces of silver, and they sell it, then treat it like a stock like an equity. And there’s a lot of people have alleged for a long time that they’ve sold those times more than once, maybe dozens of times. And so what’s happening and why the supply is all janky is that people now want physical delivery, and there’s not enough to go around. And so that premium that’s skyrocket. So what should be happening is the spot price should be skyrocketing to reflect market changes and conditions because this is exactly what precious metals are designed for a hedge against. And that’s not functioning right. But then, but what happens is since it looks like the markets not being allowed to actually, well, it looks to me that the market is not being allowed to do true price discovery on precious metals for whatever reason, right? That retail premium is where the market is finding the price.
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Right, you’re starting to see a real decoupling in precious on hand metals versus precious paper metals. So I see a real decoupling,
Rob McNealy
Which then would support that there’s been some corruption and maybe some manipulation for the suppression of those prices. And it’s like, wow, and it’s funny because it’s like this goes back to COVID the trigger, but it’s only exposing this ID Oh, there’s this other problem. This this this rot, right. That’s been there for a long time. The rot comes from consumerist mentality among Americans that come from the lack of we don’t save money. We’re not providing to literacy that’s rot in my opinion. And then you have you know, all this just crazy amounts of US dollars being printed. That’s right. And then you have the precious metals markets, being rigged, apparently, or oversold, and that’s a rot it, all this stuff and all this outsourcing to China for the last three decades and how great it was, you know, and I’m from Detroit. So I know all I mean, I grew up in I went through high school in the 80s. And and I grew up through all that outsourcing happened in the 80s in the 90s. And then NAFTA happened in the mid 90s. Thank you, Bill Clinton. And so I mean, I, I saw what it did to Detroit one because I grew up in I was living there in that and I used to work in the auto industry. And it’s like, there’s rot from all the outsourcing and it’s like, so it’s like, there’s all this immense amount of shit of rot that’s just pile up for decades and decades and decades and, you know, go back to, you know, getting off the gold standard A long time ago, and I mean, this started probably before I was born really, but it’s all coming to head from this goddamn virus. It’s like, and then the housing market, the student loan bubble, the housing bubble again, it’s all just right all at once, and it’s happening around the planet all at once. Right? And it’s and it’s not, but it’s not happening overnight. It’s gonna take a year, probably the next year as this this pandemic goes through all those different major population centers. It’s gonna and so it’s like it’s gonna get good in one spot and then just pop up into more like crazy whack a mole. And so I don’t know man if this is probably going to be the most historically speaking, yeah, good or bad. It’s going to be a fucking ride. Yeah, and and you know what and why need to connect with smart people like you they get it? Because, you know, if the ones that are slightly prepared, are also going to be targets. That’s a fact. Right? You know, I like to read history. And I actually like to read about Russian history, and Ukrainian history and things. And I don’t know if you know much about what happened in Ukraine. But when the Soviets invaded the Ukraine, they had like, two levels of peasants, right? They had the peasants and the peasants that could hire somebody to work for them. They’re only slightly better off peasants. They call them coup locks. And what the Russians did is they said that every they they created all these policies, the Soviets create all sorts of quotas and stuff and they said, all these failures are because of the coup locks because they’re rich. They weren’t rich. They were just slightly less poor than the average peasant, but they might have you know, a little bigger farm and employ two people or something. That’s how the locks work. But the Soviets through propaganda whipped up, so much froth and hate and envy between The Super poor peasants and the cool locks. And they blamed every government failure on the cool locks into the point where they basically either killed center gulags or exiled they confiscated all the property, the cool locks the entire country. And that was that’s the that’s what the whole Ukrainian genocide was about in they blame, they call them coup locks. And I tell people now that, you know, we joke around about toilet paper envy and things like that. But we’re already starting to see the signs that there’s going to be people that the preppers the people that are self reliant the people that aren’t in debt, the people that you know, have some savings are probably going to be targets. And it’s going to be propagandize much like cool locks were and I do believe this is going to be a true threat over the next year or more. Friend of mine down in Texas. He has he’s a prepper and his wife and him you know, we talked a lot And she says they have like, they actually have some decent, you know, kind of, you know, and 95 reusable and 95 mass that look kind of stylish and I have if you look at my profile picture, I have one too. And because I bought them a long time. And, and it was funny because he told and I talked to him yesterday. And he said, because the damnedest thing just happened I go Why? Because my wife was at the store and somebody started calling her out for having a good mask not a homemade one. Wow, she’s got she’s got you know, she’s got a real nice mask and we just got these, you know, homemade ones. I’m like, holy shit. It’s like just I mean, I know I my mind just going like crazy places when I hear stuff like that. Yeah. Where’s it gonna go? You know, and you know, that’s that’s the stuff that kind of gets me worried about you know, protecting my family and stuff. Stuff like that is like, you know, you work very hard and save and you don’t go on that family vacation or you don’t go on that big trip because you want to buy, you know, some extra supplies or buy, you know, you don’t buy the nice steak but you buy a couple extra cans of beans or something, you know, you do that long enough. And you know, because you feel it’s an insurance policy and then you know, so you can ride these things out. And then and then somebody says or acts like you did something wrong. It’s like, you know, I just thought ahead. I was a boy scout too. By the way, I was also a firefighter and EMT, so I think about this stuff. But I don’t know man. This is a really a downer. Thanks. So what can we do? Well, what can we do to get people to wake up more? often can we help? How can people say how can we help people say it themselves? Is it too late?
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I hate to go I really mean, but I’m really not worried about other people.
Rob McNealy
Fair enough.
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Right now I’m just worried about me and my family, I’ll help my neighbor, if I have to help my neighbor, but not at the expense of helping my family.
Rob McNealy
I think there will be a lot of people that will have to make those choices in the future. You know, and my wife and I, we have these kind of conversations too. You know, it’s like, what do you do? And, you know, because people know, we have, you know, we have some emergency supplies and stuff. I mean, I don’t hide that. I never hide it because I tried to help people and get them excited about it and say, Hey, this is an important thing. So I know those I know those decisions I’m gonna have to make at some point, because I’m the guy they call it ready. So looking for advice, right? So it just is what it is. But we knew that that we always knew that that was a risk. So you know, there’s nothing I can do about that now, but I don’t Want to be I want you know, I always say this is that I wear a mask. And my families have been wearing masks when we’re in public and things. Because I don’t want to be part of the problem. Because if you’re not part of the problem, you can be part of the solution. You know, what I’m saying is don’t be a victim first, right? Protect your family. Protect your what you got. Because if you’re in that position, then you do have the option to help other people. Right. And, you know, maybe I can’t help the whole neighborhood, but maybe I can help one person, you know, and, and that’s what I hope to do. And like, you know, we’re putting in a big garden this year, like a really big garden, like nuts. you’d laugh it’s like a farm. And I told my wife I go, you know, I don’t know where things are going. And and she’s about 98% where I am. I’m a little more like, no, buy everything we can possibly buy right now. You know, I’m a little more, you know, let’s just do we got this one last chance is how I see it. And I said, you know, let’s just put in more, let’s fill up some more lawn, put in some more plants and she’s like, why do we need more? I go, because we can help other people if we need. That’s why. And that’s how I think you know, and you know it doesn’t hurt me to buy you know, by the way you can buy seeds at the dollar store for for $1 everybody’s freaking out about seeds. Go to the dollar store dollar store has the cheapest seeds anywhere in the country. Nobody knows that. I don’t know why they don’t know that. But did you plant a garden? Are you planning a garden this year? Can you plant a garden?
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
I can but I won’t be this year.
Rob McNealy
You need to plant a garden. I’m gonna give you some shit about that. I think you should plant a garden. I really do. Please, little garden. Do this for me. Put your wife on. I’m just giving you shit. So Noir, where can people find out more?
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
About? Oh um yeah, we would way down the rabbit hole man, I thought we were going somewhere else. You can find me on Twitter: @InvestNoir, I N V E S T N O I R or you can check me out on Instagram at @CigarsandCrypto. Or you can listen to me on any of your podcast platforms of choice. Just search for Cigars and Crypto, or CigarsandCrypto.com.
Rob McNealy
You have the best radio voice ever. So, guys, you gotta listen to his podcast. He’s got some really, really great points out there. I really like where he’s coming from because he is my echo chamber. Thank you so much for listening this Robin Neely. Check us out on the web at Rob McNealy calm.
Invest Noir – Cigars and Crypto Podcast
Thanks for having me.
Episode Links
Owen York, State of the Union Transcript
Note: This transcript was automatically generated by artificial intelligence (AI) and therefore typos may be present.
Rob McNealy
Hey guys, today I am talking to Owen York. Once again, he is with gun industry marketplace. And we’re going to just kind of talk about what’s going on the gun industry. It’s getting toward the end of the year, and they do kind of end the year recap about what’s going on in the industry. So I want to welcome back to the show. How are you today? Hey, good, how you doing? I’m good. So what do you been up to?
Owen York – Gun Industry Marketplace
Well, lots of lots of work busy, busy over here.
Rob McNealy
It’s been a little crazy here too. So you’ve been on the show before and so you’re kind of like a return. Guest but For the people who are kind of new to the podcast, because we’ve been growing kind of give a little bit of background tell us like, what do you do? And how did you get involved with the gun industry?
Owen York – Gun Industry Marketplace
Yeah, well, if I would do a quick recap, I would say, I had an earlier professional career where I sort of grew up with, you know, high tech, and then I sort of evolved into public safety and defense and those sort of markets. And so I have a lot of high tech background, terms of sales, marketing, business development, especially right. And then about five and a half years ago, I entered into firearms. And so now I’ve been in that business for five and a half years to several, you know, kind of endeavors that evolved into what we have, which is called the gun industry marketplace. And the short, short, the short and sweet about what the gun industry marketplaces is, it’s sort of a growing and evolving hub for the firearms industry. And so we’re connected to all sorts of different companies of all shapes and sizes. Huge in the US, as you can imagine, but also, our international market is growing a lot. In fact, over the summer grew three to 7%, somewhere in there just over the summer, which is interesting. And so what we do is we, you know, we help these companies promote their names, their brands, their products, their services. And originally it started as a sort of kind of like a b2b endeavor. But it’s since expanded to, you know, the average shooter, you know, the consumer. So that’s kind of cool, because I think they like it because they sort of get to see things that they don’t normally get to see all the time because, you know, not everyone has the marketing budgets of you know, Ruger Smith Smith and Wesson. So they like that. It’s different stuff. It’s cool stuff. But also law enforcement has really kind of taken to this for so it’s just kind of an interesting thing. It’s sort of evolved into this like One Stop location for the industry. And I mean, it’s growing and the new categories every month. So it’s, it’s cool. It’s cool. It’s but I’d say at the end of the day, it’s kind of like a, it’s a real kind of like marketing, advertising and sort of make connections platform for the industry where it’s like, all in one place. So that’s kind of a recap of what we do.
Rob McNealy
Very cool. And for a lot of people that may, you know, not be in the United States or what have you is that not because the legalities are from a regulatory standpoint, but just from politics. It’s actually kind of challenging for lawful gun retailers to market even though the firearms industry is actually constitutionally protected in the United States. And it’s a huge you know, very well regulated, tested, yeah, protected, but, but one of the things about the gun industry is that they’re treated like a leper when it comes to market. on, you know, like social platforms and Google and things like that and and it’s very difficult for lawful gun retailers and supporting accessory manufacturers and things to actually get their products into the market because of that. And so I think that’s where what you’re doing on with, you know, gun industry marketplace is actually a real big service is because you have to kind of go outside those channels when you’re in this space.
Owen York – Gun Industry Marketplace
You have to, you know, basically I kind of prepared some, some notes and and one of the things we do every year is we do a survey, we call it state of the industry, state of the firearms industry. And this survey, this market research is everybody. All right now, not everybody obviously, does it but the snapshot of the industry, these could be manufacturers that you know, tier one tier two tier three manufacturers service providers, your you know, your local ffls gunsmiths gun ranges. You know, Anybody who’s instructors, anybody who actually is in the industry, we send this out to and so we get a very nice snapshot of what’s occurred. And also as kind of a preface to it, it’s, it’s also confidential. So somebody can tell us who they are if they like, but, you know, we want real answers. You know, we want to get the the meat of what’s, what really occurred. So we get some very interesting answers to this and just kind of following what you said. Yeah, that’s a big deal this year. What do you were you were just referring to so it’s, it’s kind of a nice segue into some of these results.
Rob McNealy
So tell me what would be one of the highlights what’s what did happen this year?
Owen York – Gun Industry Marketplace
Well, I mean, it’s probably no surprise anybody who’s working in the industry, but you know, they refer to it as the as the Trump slump. So that’s definitely still occurring. I’d say You know, there’s some there’s some gems out there who are doing good. There’s a couple of companies who I know who are doing really well and even expanded, but I would say for the most part 2019 was terrible, especially the summer.
Rob McNealy
I don’t want to explain that. What is the Trump slump?
Owen York – Gun Industry Marketplace
Well, let’s put it this way. You had Obama who was in office, and he was the best gun salesman probably in history. Every time that guy would open his mouth, people would go and buy more guns and ammo, you name it. I mean, it was just it was a feeding frenzy. And I think the only person who probably could have given Obama a run for his money would have been Clinton, Hillary Clinton, and the threat of Hillary as President. I mean, it was a feeding frenzy. And so you had manufacturers who were just pumping the stuff out as fast as they can make it retails. I mean, it was just buying selling you name it was just going on like crazy. But then when Trump one here you have somebody was, you know, more or less friendly to the industry and the Second Amendment, and overnight, everything changed. It’s just simple supply and demand. There was a huge surplus of inventory with the manufacturers and the distributors and the retailers. And the demand just went out the bottom overnight. And so now what you have occurring is a market correction. You know, you had new retail, there’s new online stores, everybody wants to get into the gun industry, and they’re selling and, and so the whole industry just kind of went like this. But then the demand dropped. And so now it’s like contracting. So it’s, it was bloated, it was a balloon, sort of like the real estate market and await and so that’s what’s occurring is a huge market correction. And so that’s really the list of other things occurring was I’ll get into a little bit but that’s what the Trump slump is, is that just the demand has dropped out the bottom and you have the entire industry really sort of returning back to business. As usual as a, you know, as a sporting industry or supporting certain markets, like law enforcement, things like that. So that’s that’s the Trump slump. But the first real point is that 2019 sucked. There’s, there’s no way around it. I mean, again, there’s a few gems out there, but, you know, there’s, there’s dealers who’ve been going out of business. And I don’t want to make this too general. You know, there are, you know, some of the guys who’ve been around for 20 or 30 years, you know, they’re still around, they’re still kicking, there’s not everybody shutting the doors, but there’s enough is worthy of note of how many companies went out of business. And even with the distributors. This has been going on for the last two years now. You know, the shutting the doors, you know, there’s there’s big ones, there’s medium ones. I know that one or two that have went bankrupt, I know some that are, you know, consolidating. So it’s pretty fascinating man. There’s a huge flux going on in the business right now. So that’s another like the first real highlight, you know,
Rob McNealy
and I’d like to point out just, you know, throw my two cents in there is that what’s happening is not that there’s a lot, you know, a loss of interest in guns or firearms. What happened is that during the Obama administration, because of the fear that you know, his anti gun rhetoric instilled in people, the industry basically expanded its capacity massively to meet that demand. And once Trump got into office, the demand basically went back down to pre Obama levels and and now that’s correcting because you had a big expansion and now it’s just that the people are stocked up and and I tell people that people are feel people are more like conservatives are more confident and comfortable with their gun rights when a republican isn’t office versus when a democrat is now I don’t necessarily think that’s smart because Republic given lots of gun control, too. But that’s the general perception I see out there among, you know, concerned.
Owen York – Gun Industry Marketplace
Well, sure, yeah. It’s swings back and forth. I mean, it’s a big, big cycle to go. Conservatives, liberals, and, you know, I don’t I don’t buy into the two party system myself. I’m not I’m not one of those guys. I feel like it’s all the same Master, you know, so I don’t buy into that. But I do buy into the swings, like, I feel like it’s definitely a controlled thing. Like, all right, let’s go. Let’s go make these guys happy. All right. Let’s make these guys happy. But underneath, there’s still that underlying agenda. I think maybe I think it’s a little different. Now, last couple of years. There’s some interesting things going on, which is a whole different conversation, but just, you know, in regards to firearms, it’s, in fact, I’ll bring up this next point because it’s kind of a good segue. One of the biggest problems this year. Aside from all we need more sales, you know, like we need more sales, we need more customers, blah, blah, blah. I mean, that’s, that’s, that’s a given based on what we are saying. But what I was noticing a lot and this this I saw this last year too, but even more this year, and it’s not going to come as a huge surprise, but this whole media circus, you know, these anti gun anti Second Amendment campaigns, there’s more taxes, there’s more regulations, there’s more government, there’s more new legislation, these politicians. The kickback is even as big this year, and the demand for change is bigger this year, which, you know, isn’t a huge surprise if you’re paying attention to what’s going on. But like, for example, there’s a new, just this one little tidbit. I know in the state of Illinois, there was a new tax dealers, right. And I don’t have all the specifics, but there’s some new tax and dealers where now they have to pay another 1500 dollars a year. You know, which for some of these smaller dealers, it’s another 1500 bucks, you know, so it’s more suppression, but that’s probably the number one thing that I see out there right now, that’s being reported to me from all facets of the industry is just it, they’re getting very tired. The demand for change is huge on end to the point where people are starting to look for legal support, which I also find interesting. You know, they’re looking for legal support, like straight up attorneys. You know, and here’s where I think your There’s your nras and you’re going to have those of America going like, take note guys. I’m sure they’ve got their work cut out for them. But, you know, I think we’re going to start to see even more new Second Amendment groups cropping up To meet the demand.
Rob McNealy
So what do you mean by they’re seeking more legal support? Who’s seeking more legal support?
Owen York – Gun Industry Marketplace
Well, you know, like, for example, you know, every time there’s a win in the government for, you know, the second amendment when like, you know, another constitutional carry state, or we’ve made inroads towards that, you know, the sort of, you know, I guess you could say, the liberal agenda, or the anti gun agenda, or whatever you want to term it. I feel like it’s almost a free for all they’re like submitting bills left and right. federal, state, local. And I almost feel like touch slinging these things. And oh, and just kind of taken whatever sticks, you know, like some of them are passing. And then there’s like this little thing that passes over here. And so it’s hard to keep up with, you know, like in terms of sheer volume, and so that’s kind of what I’m gleaning out of here is you know, Like, I know, there was companies were moving to Nevada from California. They were just jumping ship. And now I’ve started to see reports of people jumping, going like I’m out of Nevada, it’s too close to California, we’re going to Idaho. Which is, you know, so there’s there’s definitely a, there’s more of an exodus going to be occurring from these, these states. But you know, there needs to be more legal support, more lobbying support. And if the big dogs on the block can handle it like the NRA and the gunners of America, and there’s some other ones out there, too. That’s why I think there’s there’s a demand occurring right now, more so than ever. And you’re going to start to see some more action there just to handle the sheer volume, you know.
Rob McNealy
Yeah, I think what we’re seeing with artists project and talking to retailers, it’s there’s a lot Fear kind of trepidation out there on what will happen, especially by companies that are in states that are not gun friendly or appeared like they’re going to become gun friendly. Right. And, and, and there’s all sorts of pressures going on, you know, with with retailers. You know, there’s their political pressure. There’s protests, there’s, you know, there’s all these crazy additional hoops and regulations and taxes. But, you know, on top of that, you’re getting the the corporate pressure coming on to these companies are refusing to do business with lawful regulated gun retailers. And you’re now totally, you know, yeah,
Owen York – Gun Industry Marketplace
well, it’s funny like the next points on here, I’m going to give you a few more bullet points, because if you see the sort of perfect storm that’s being created here, we kind of touched on this before a little bit, but like, for example, so we have the government side That was, you know, people were complaining about it last year, but this year, it’s way more. It’s affecting, you know, it’s having an effect. Plus, we’re coupled with the Trump slump. Plus, you know, summers are usually slow in the industry anyway. So you have a slow summer and top of a slow industry on top of the legal stuff plus we still have increased. How do you want to call it? censorship will call it really are discrimination is another one. So you have increased censorship and discrimination from companies like Amazon, eBay, PayPal, the social media giants, you know, like, telling you rob, I won’t be surprised if one day you see Facebook, slash Instagram go, Okay, if you have done anything by I won’t be surprised in the least bit. So you have that occurring. And there’s demand, you know, these companies, they want it, they want to connect to the consumer, the public, but they can’t because of the increased depression, the banking, you know, and this is what I think you’ll find that particularly interesting and the finance sort of money side of it. There’s also there’s still a strangulation of the industry occurring there. Now, that’s what’s happening over the last couple of years especially, and I’ve seen and heard less reports of it this year, but it is still occurring. In fact, I just heard of one yesterday. But there’s this is what I have seen as needed as of this year is companies, Stephen, stay in business need money. Obviously, they need financing. They’re looking for partnerships. And this is where you’re going to be seeing further. You know, what’s the word like? There’s a lot of…
Rob McNealy
Consolidation?
Owen York – Gun Industry Marketplace
..and that’s the word Thank you consolidation already occurring. You know, you’ve seen a lot last year too, there’s good there’s more coming, and it’s in there and it’s being asked for just a kind of a float. So financing partnerships are needed. Didn’t want it, but even down into investors, buddy, right, right down to the local place down to the point of sale and merchant processing. You know, these guys are having trouble finding good reputable companies with good rates that are second amendment friendly, that won’t drop them, you know, which is what I think is kind of interesting about what you’re doing with tusken the future like the, you know, there’s a solution in there somewhere, you know. So, I mean, you could see the sort of perfect storm that’s been created.You know?
Rob McNealy
Well, I, you know, on one part, you know, I’d love nothing more to be successful with our project, right. That’s, we all want to be successful. But, you know, I don’t find joy that the industry is suffering. You know, when I came into this project, because we love the industry, and we’re big believers in the industry, and we see that the industry is struggling and we see You know, potential solution to that. And in fact, you know, decentralized finance and things, you know, and some of these other things that are coming out of blockchain, not just what we’re doing with task, but you know, there’s other things coming in the future that I think might actually save some of those other things and be other solutions for the industry itself. Now, you were talking about finance, like, for instance, that can cover things like if someone wants to build a gun range, or build a big gun store that you know, caters to a certain market. There you have a hard time finding people to finance those projects, like totally fall. So there’s going to be your businesses like you’re talking about your business financing, but also the the financing for consumers, you know, that they can finance a consumers purchase. So I’ll just throw that in there. Both of those are what I’m talking about, just to make sure it’s clear.
Yes, indeed. And I think that’s some of the pressure now that’s coming becoming from the political side, the anti gun World is now becoming ever more vocal about Visa and MasterCard, people just using debit cards to buy purchases with their own money. And I think I believe that’s going to be stepped up. And I think it’s going to take over, I only think that’s going to increase. And they’ll be very fascinating when the networks like Visa and MasterCard themselves decide that they’re not going to allow these kinds of transactions to occur.
And I do it will not shock me in the least bit.
Owen York – Gun Industry Marketplace
You know, I mean, how, in one of these, I was just reading it this morning, one of the survey results like I said, the tabulations are fully done, but I’ve got enough but one of them I mean, PayPal over and over was in here and then one it was like we should sue Pay Pal and, and they’re just you know, they just won’t accept it. And you’re like, Well, I mean, I that’s I guess that’s a different conversation because it is a private company. I guess they can do whatever they want. But if this were any other industry or anything else, like the discrimination question, would be huge.
Rob McNealy
Well, there are about seven industries that are in that same boat, right? Whereas with PayPal, for instance, when we looked at markets that have a recognized problem with normal banking and financing, right, we did a market segmentation we did some research and, and all there’s about seven industries that have a problem that’s recognized right now. And they’re all distasteful to somebody. So that could be things like cannabis, that can be things like pornography, it could be things like prostitution and gambling, and, you know, refugees and immigrants, remittances, you know, payday lenders, things like that, though, and guns and things like that. Now, you know, it’s funny, because if you’re a conservative, you probably don’t like any of those things, except for one of them. Right.
Owen York – Gun Industry Marketplace
I know. That’s, that’s the funny thing is they’re all considered and termed high risk markets, except, you know, there’s only one that’s protected by the US. constitution. You know, like, there’s one that’s written into the senior laws of the land that all the states agreed to, and it wasn’t weed. Well, you know, I find that interesting, like so. But yeah, totally like, you know, I know the conservative crowd is, I would say as a main is not into those other high risk markets, you know, not right. Yeah. You know, I mean, so it’s it’s too bad that it gets grouped in with those when it’s you know, if you know, the industry like you were it like, it’s a very friendly close knit, family oriented sporting industry. So it’s really too bad that it whoops then gets grouped in with other things that it doesn’t need to be.
Rob McNealy
Well, I think, you know, when I come to Nashville, we should have a long conversation about freedom and what that looks like and, and this is where social conservatives and you know, it’s hard to talk about guns without getting into politics, but this is where social conservatives and allies We kind of missed the boat. Right? Right. As I say, I live a very, you know, personally, I am very, I live a very social conservative life personally, you know, but I also realize that if we want a free society, that what that requires of me as an individual is that to realize and understand and be okay with other people will make decisions and choices about their lives that I wouldn’t like or agree with. And I need to be okay with that. Because the alternative is, is a big government that then can has the power to do whatever it wants. So, on one hand, you know, a lot of people hate the fact that people use the courts to sue everybody out of Oblivion, and then until it affects them, right, and then they say, Well, you know, this private company doesn’t want to do business with us, so we need to sue that. Well. It’s private company, right? You know, on one hand, you know, and and I’m just poking fun here, and I’m not anti conservative or anything, but you’ll see, you know, people conservatives that want to be able to denied service based on you know, they don’t want to bake the cake. Right, you know, but on the same token if someone wants to reverse that, and now they do want to force somebody to bake the payment processing. Right, right. So this is where it gets, you know, we got to be consistent. And again, people are very libertarian when it comes to themselves, but not necessarily other people. And so, and to me, I’m okay with PayPal denying anybody they want i because I believe it’s freedom of association, a private company.
Owen York – Gun Industry Marketplace
That’s why I have mixed opinions myself where I want and I don’t like it, but it’s a you know, it’s a bad company. I don’t want anyone telling me what to do with my business. I’ll tell you that, you know, and I so I feel like I can respect the right of somebody else. But you know, like, I love using Dick’s Sporting Goods as an example but you know, like, or Walmart or any of these other ones who kind of hopped on board and the you know, Sort of withdrawing from the firearms industry, even if it just if they don’t want to get sued, whatever it is, you know, let the free market work on them. That’s what I believe. Like, I don’t want anyone tell me what to do with my business. So if I make a really bad decision and decide to alienate, you know, quarter of my customers or clients, oh, hey, it’s gonna hurt my pocketbook. You know, it’s gonna hurt our bank account. So I, it’s I go, you know, that’s, that’s a very powerful message to send to any corporation. Like, I’ll never shop at a Dick’s Sporting Goods again, you know, have have fun. And I’m just one guy. And I know there’s a ton out there and that’s a ton of money. And that’s going to be the biggest point. So that’s, that’s why I believe in letting you know, hey, you want to run your business that way it’s your business or, you know, the shareholders. They want to go into agreement on something, find the free markets going to do its job.
Rob McNealy
I agree. And I think part of it is is that you should vote with your dollars and friends. Not only do I not shop at Dick’s Sporting Goods anymore, because they are anti gun, but I won’t use Uber lift anymore, because they also recently signed on to a letter that, you know, was very anti gun a couple months ago when those hundred plus CEOs of major companies wanted more gun control over and left for both signatories to that, and I won’t use those services. And you know, that’s and that’s a big inconvenience for me for traveling to other cities. And in fact, recently, I was traveling to Las Vegas, and I had to figure out a ride to get somewhere because I won’t download those apps. They were removed from my I canceled my accounts and remove those apps. And so now, it makes it a little harder for me, but I do vote by principles. But I also think when you have private companies making these political decisions, that also opens the door for innovation, and I believe this is one of those things that can drive what we’re doing. So I believe if you close the door in one place in the market, another opportunity opens. And I think this is what’s going to drive the adoption of decentralized projects where we get trusted banks, quote, unquote, out of the loop. Now, wouldn’t it be nice that you don’t have to go through Visa and MasterCard, to do business or you don’t have to go through a PayPal to do business because there’s other systems that are decentralized and don’t have a central control that’s in the middle making those political decisions, and
Owen York – Gun Industry Marketplace
I’m watching for some behind that the less What can I say less regulations, decentralization. I mean, you know, I even this morning was paying a fee for my company, and I’m kind of like, why am I paying a fee for this? I feel like, you know, the founding fathers would roll over in their graves if they saw some of the taxes and regulation like it is completely not what this place was intended to be. And I you know, it wasn’t even a lot of money but the fact that I even had to do it like I have to check for this one stupid little thing that has nothing to do with the government. And I was like, so I, you know, I mean, the push definitely needs to go in that direction. And it’s in being hugely demanded right now.
Rob McNealy
Yeah, I think ultimately, market decisions will drive innovation. And so if people want to be political, that’s their choice. Now, I, I’m old enough to remember when I didn’t know the political affiliations of the companies I did business with when I was growing up. And even when I was in business school, they said, don’t be political, you know, you’re going to alienate your customers and customers are, you know, good thing and, and, and, and I get, you know, with the gun space is political. So I understand that trade off that I’m dealing with in this space. And so I know that I have to basically there’s a line in the sand when you’re willing to be gun friendly or be focused on supporting an industry that has a problem in this space because it is distasteful to some people. But I also think Now that that is what we’re dealing with in the United States, where companies are drawing lines in the sand that this will drive innovation, and I I’m excited. Yeah.
Owen York – Gun Industry Marketplace
I it’s funny. I had a, you know, I had the viewpoint was, you know, when I was younger, I didn’t know all the politics. I didn’t even read my constitution what, you know, other people paid attention in their high school government classes or even understood what the hell they were hearing. No, they didn’t, you know, you know, so it’s, it is interesting, like, I used to have that opinion, it is politics when my politics i used to keep it out of business. And then people weren’t so touchy about it. It wasn’t so vicious, you know. Now, you know, I mean, yeah, for one being in the firearms space, you you’ve chosen one side. I mean, this is sort of hard to say like a political there. With the exception that like I said earlier, like the two party system, I don’t prescribe to subscribe to any of that stuff. I don’t affiliate myself with any party I have. I don’t feel like That’s, I don’t know, anywhere in the Constitution, it talks about parties. You know, I don’t like that stuff at all. I think we need to make that go the way of the dinosaur. But, you know, so I can kind of say that stuff. And then in terms of, I don’t know, I sort of consider firearms, it’s too bad that it’s getting the, the precedents getting and how touchy it is. But I it’s a niche market, just like any other sport, you know, you’re a basketball fan, you’re, you know, hockey fan, or, you know, you’re into archery. I mean, these are niche markets. So I mean, it’s, it’s, I don’t know, it’s not political, and it’s just being made political, you know, in terms of the industry, I should say, you know, other than the, again, the second amendment is written in there, and it’s in there for a reason and it’s not so I mean, yeah, of course, it’s so you can protect your family, but it’s, that’s not the real reason that these guys wrote it into the Constitution, like That’s what I think some people don’t, who haven’t read their history or don’t know their history. You know, if you go back and look like Well, okay, well, why? Why are firearms in the senior law of the land? Why did they do that, and you only need to look back from where they came from and what they were handling and realize, you know, had to do with oppressive government, you know, but unless you read your history, you’re like, oh, cool, you know, have a gun and protect my family. And that’s what it’s all about. And you’re like, No, no, that’s not what it’s there for, you know?
Rob McNealy
Well, I think if you want to look at a contemporary example, look at Hong Kong right now.
Owen York – Gun Industry Marketplace
Fascinating, right?
Rob McNealy
And to me, if those people had firearms, they would not be getting beaten in the streets.
Owen York – Gun Industry Marketplace
Dude. Well, it blows me away. Rob, like I see in America protests waving the you know, this communist flag, you know, with the the sickle on the hammer, and that’s in the states and then you go over to, you know, China well, Hong Kong right. And and they’re waving the American flag. Is that amazing?
Rob McNealy
Well, you know, it’s ironic that this morning I actually had a conference call to the Ukraine with an exchange that we might be doing business with. And I find it’s interesting talking to Eastern Europeans and Asians versus Americans and Western Europeans. It and what I’m finding is that actually Asians are really pro gun like especially say in like Hong Kong and Japan where they really can’t even own guns. They’re very pro gun, and Eastern Europeans are very pro gun. It’s the western Europeans and the Americans that now have this weird anti gun thing happening. I don’t know what happened to the west. I always tell people to when we talk about banning, you know, immigrants and things like that, but they always say well what the Europeans and I’m like, you know what the Europeans are the ones that invented socialism and invented communism. Okay, so if you want to like ban a certain group of people from coming here maybe it’s the people that invented that garbage in the first place, maybe start there you know..
Owen York – Gun Industry Marketplace
What, and even then like, you know, I agree with you know, immigration in that it should be not stopped. I mean, people come to this country for a reason no, but it should be monitored. There should be rules. I do agree with that. We It can’t just be a free for all, you know.
Rob McNealy
But it’s been commies I start there. Let’s Yeah,
Owen York – Gun Industry Marketplace
I mean, you know, but the the interesting thing, though, is like there’s people who come to this country, who appreciate it more than the people who were born here, who may grieve gotten soft over the generations like they know. They know what this place is. And they compare it to their home. Like an interesting factoid about Nashville that I didn’t know was there was until I moved here is there’s a, a large Kurdish population here. And they were refugees from whenever that was in, I think, was early 90s, or something like that. And I’ve talked to some of these people, and I, one of them was a neighbor of mine, and they’re very, they get it, and they really appreciate the freedoms that they have here that they didn’t have, where they were absurd of being, you know, run out and murdered. You know, and so, I guarantee you the commie flag waving portlander that I saw and was watching. If their life was in danger from the government that they you know, like if they were being run out of there. homes and areas. It would be a very different story. They wouldn’t be buying into the propaganda, which is what it is, you know, and I and there’s one thing you said that I like make comment down to the, you know how anti gun America’s that’s not true. There’s a percentage. There’s a percentage there’s there’s definitely a group, but I would still be willing to defend that the large percentage of Americans are, you know, pro firearms pro constitution, you know, it’s, I don’t buy the mainstream media’s reports, poll or anything like that. I go, who did you pull? I’ve never been pulled. And in my 40 years of existence, I’ve never received one survey or one poll from any of you guys. Like who you ask it. You know, I could go poll right now. Like, I can go call 50 people who I know we’re all firearms friendly and have one set of answers. Or I could go you know, and do you know, major city and walk around where it’s a little more liberal and get 50 sets of other answers doesn’t make it a correct survey.
Rob McNealy
You know, true and and and i and i agree with that. I mean, it’s poll taking is very partisan regardless and an inexact science, but I can tell you through what I’m doing with crypto, I’m traveling a lot, and I’m going to go to California go to New York to go, you know, all over the country. And I definitely see a big difference from people that grew up. And you know, in, you know, New York, New Jersey, Illinois and call, you know, California. The people in those places now, never were exposed to guns growing up, largely. And I think that’s a big deal. And I just saw an article this morning about people, you know, surprisingly, you know, that people that are exposed to guns, don’t fear them as much. But I think the problem is a lot of people like in New York City or some of these places where basically guns are essentially outlawed. They’re not growing up around them so they don’t even understand the culture and they and everything they know about guns is either from the media it’s either from the movies or it’s from the news and or and and that’s both usually propaganda on both sides too. Right and I think so.
Owen York – Gun Industry Marketplace
I grew up and I was a boy scout we shot the 22 rifle slowly it was no big deal.
Rob McNealy
Nobody here nobody cared in but you know I’m also a Gen X or so you know, I think it’s different now and look at the Boy Scouts are dying as an organization to so you gotta take that a good segue me there’s fewer Boy Scouts now.
Owen York – Gun Industry Marketplace
So I was just reading there are there’s a set of girls, I think it was in Indiana who opened their own Boy Scout troop, but it’s all girls and like, isn’t that just the Girl Scouts?
No, it’s not actually, you know, I’m going to say an unpopular opinion. I actually support that. Yeah. And you know why? This because there’s so here’s Think about this, and I was a boy scout too. I didn’t get my Eagle back. I close. That was a life scout. But here’s the thing. There’s no equivalent The Girl Scouts to becoming an Eagle Scout. And there are societal benefits to being an Eagle Scout. Like for instance, if you’re an Eagle Scout, you start you go to basic training the army you’d be hearing from day one. You know, for instance, you can get scholarships for college, it’s considered something you would hire on, it’s a hiring bullet point. So and the Girl Scouts don’t have an equivalent and on top of that the Girl Scouts don’t really focus on the outdoor activity part of scouting like the Boy Scouts do. And in fact, you know, it’s interesting, I live in Utah and the churches basically was at one point the the LDS church was like the biggest, like every church had its own truth that was kind of a church and the church has ended that relationship and they’re they’re weaning themselves off that relationship right now. But my I would love for my my one daughter who’s of age to be a Boy Scout, because I think they learned
It’s interesting. I didn’t know those details because like in terms of this whole thing, Gender garbage with fully I think that’s crap. I that actually makes sense in terms of, I guess you would just eliminate it and just call it scouts
Rob McNealy
Right now. And that is how it is in other countries too, by the way, they were they’ve actually had the thing. The Girl Scouts, though and getting getting political is that the Girl Scouts are very political to very left wing. And so, and I and, you know, I want my kids to be very accurate. My I have four kids, two girls, two boys, and I want them all to have both vocational skills, survival skill, shooting skills, and stem based academic skills. And so to me, that’s important and I would love there to be, you know, a good scouting program that my girls and my boys could all learn the same skills. You know, and and, you know, we’re going to we’re going to look at that, but it’s just one of those things that you know, lots of people don’t look at it like that, because, you know, if you’re an Eagle Scout, though there are societal benefits and
Owen York – Gun Industry Marketplace
What is the data in the media? Well, you just said that whole point. It’s a very good point when it’s a reported that in the media people be like, Hey, I could see that because you’re telling me and I go, yeah, I could see that I can. I think that’s actually great. If there was just a scouting program for kids, period. That’s great. Because you’re right, if it’s a if the programs aren’t comparable, but just pushing it for the sake of this whole genders lame, yeah, I’m like, Okay, guys, like enough. You know..
Rob McNealy
and, and, and I think part of the boyscout problem, I know a lot of scout leaders. And so and I think part of the problem is as well as that the Boy Scouts are losing membership radically. And I think that’s part of the problem, too. Now, don’t get me wrong. I do believe there’s a lot of crazy people that just want to file lawsuits to be jerks right there is trying to push a point and that drives some of this too. So, you know, the world is not a black and white place as much as I want it to be. Now, life would be so much simpler if it wasn’t for people. Right. So what else have you What else are you seeing in your numbers in your survey so far?
Owen York – Gun Industry Marketplace
I got it. A few more points I can that are kind of interesting. You know, there was there was quite a bit of bad like, you know, we’re going to there’s more closures coming. That’s coming, we’re going to see more big small ones. It’s not done yet. And there’s been a lot the last couple years. There’s similar things that I see every year that are still occurring that they’ll probably always occur like the brick and mortars versus the buying power of the big box retailers, the internet giants, you know, that’s occurring. You know, Hey, can you guys the manufacturers, can you guys enforce your map pricing? That’s always a big one that I hear every year, the shrinking margins I hear every year. So that hasn’t changed. That’s continued. A positive note was, you know, Black Friday, I think the whole Black Friday weekend was good this year. In fact, I think it was number two in terms of records. Nice was over like 200,000 federal background checks. So we know at least 200,000 firearms sold. So that was kind of cool. So There was there’s an uptick there. That was positive.And I think another interesting thing I did see, which I wasn’t totally sure of, because I get mixed reports on this, but I had people throwing in, you know, go Trump 2020. You know, there was there was kind of a lot. So there’s still, I think the, as a whole, and, again, these are sort of general it’s not every single person. These are just kind of highlights that I took note of. But I it still appears that Trump is very much supported by the industry, at least for the most part, from what we could see. But I In summary, you know, there’s the I’d say the senior things that I could really tell you are the discrimination. And all what I said the media, the government regulations, all that stuff. That’s still huge in the tech companies. You know, the strangulation of the market is still occurring? And, and I would Oh, I want to give one shout out again, I don’t know who said this, but just somebody did say, the best part of their 2019 was the gun industry marketplace, and they said keep it up. So, whoever you are, thanks for that.
Rob McNealy
So, you know, question strangulation now, we do have merchant processing that’s still out there. So, R is the current merchant processing, what would be the strangulation part of that I do know that there are gun friendly, you know, merchant processing services out there. Is it just not are they not adequate to meet the demand right now?
Owen York – Gun Industry Marketplace
Um, some are, some are, you know, but like, for example, I was talking to a dealer yesterday, and he was making a switch from one who was a firearms friendly payment. processor but the rates were just this is a local dealer nice company but small you know so it just not affordable you know they’re not getting he wasn’t getting the benefits of maybe a larger supported payment processing company that I don’t know so just price out a little bit what kind of rates are they getting? I don’t know the specifics of the rates I just know he was leaving one who I’m not gonna say who it is but I know who it is and he’s making a move to another one which was a new name for me which I think is a local or regional company so new to my radar anyway
Rob McNealy
Well, you know, it’s good to hear what’s going on the industry and and that’s what I really like you as a respected stores because you know, you your got your ear to the street out there. So where can people find out more?
Owen York – Gun Industry Marketplace
Well, we’re let’s see, we don’t really publish this. You know, I usually okay. So, but you know, if they want to find us, we’re just gun industry marketplace calm. And the one the one final point that I’d like to just kind of get out there for anyone listening here is, you know if you really want to help the firearms industry right now, like the thing that I would probably tell you to do as of December 2019, just go buy a gun, go buy another one. You know, if a lot of people did that right now, it would, it would just like help move, move things a little bit more. So, go buy guns, man, exercise your exercise. You’re right. That’s what I would tell people to do to help right now.
Rob McNealy
I can’t think of better advice. Thank you somuch for coming on today.
Owen York – Gun Industry Marketplace
Thanks for having me. Again, Rob.
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